Hey guys! I have been struggling with my 98 Fe 600 elduro.Bought as a near basket case a few years ago,it has become a hobby or according to my wife an obsession,to bring it up to par.Last winter A friend and I split the cases and rebuilt the starter assembly and inspected the rest of the motor.The bike came with a 38mm eddelbrock carb.After a year of tuning I gave up and bought a 40 mm del orto from simon.Didnt have much time to dial it in last year.My problem is this,I am struggling with the idle,I have a pop or slight backfire in the low rpm are and it runs rough and never seems to clear up.The rest of the range seems fine..jetting is this,180 mn jt,45 st jt,272dr ndl jt.I forgot where the clip is,Simon mentioned when I bought the carb I should be in the ball prk with the jetting,now I just need some ideas on which way to go or if I need to look somewhere else.Thanks!
Jet pilot 38,needle 272dr 45 start jet 180 main fuel screw out 11/2 turns.initial start is a little stuborn when cold,even when warm it seems that the choke is required.I believe the carb came from an 02 or 03 650 he was parting out here in the classifieds.
Joined Jun 2001
1K Posts | 0+
Pasadena Ca.
schultzy said:
O.K. you still haven't given me the Needle number, I will assume it is a K51, clip #3 from the top.
Based upon the 2001 and 2002-2003 Owners manuals, the jetting you now have is neither of those years, so I can assume Simon was fine tuning this carb for either trail riding or Super Motard Track racing.
You should consider calling him, or PM him with the question, and what he would suggest you do to correct the problem. The needle and needle jet wear and may need to be replaced for correct mixture control
Here are the jetting pages from the 01 and 03 Owner manuals. You should use the 650 Enduro or SuperMotard Competition models for jetting reference.
Regards,
Joe
I checked the needle, it was on the second from the top,droped it one clip and it seemed a little better,I pulled the vacum line off and plugged the intake ,no difference.I feel that its just a minor jetting issue that keeps it from running smoothly.It still pops and backfires slightly,hoping for good weather tomorrow for a test run.
Joined Jun 2001
1K Posts | 0+
Pasadena Ca.
berger, schultzy
IMHO
A problem with Delorto PHMs is that the needle and needle jet rub together and cause the needle jet and needle to get worn, causing the mixture at idle and up to 1/16 or so throttle to become too rich.
Folks start tweaking the idle mixture screw and or lowering the needle to compensate for the idle richness. Ultimately, the condition causes the kind of trouble schultzy is describing; hard starting and erratic rough running at partial throttle (do to excessive leanness).
I have had it happen on my 00 501 4 times now in 10,000 miles. The final symptom is running rough at partial throttle with the needle on clip 2 and the fuel screw 1 to 1 1/4 turn out. Hard starting (lean). fair idle, but rough running at partial throttle and popping under deceleration.
Replace the needle jet and needle and the problem is fixed.
Then you may want to go back to the 40 pilot jet.
While you have the pilot jet out you may want to remove the diffuser tube way down in the same hole the pilot jet is in. Careful, it takes a small blade screw driver to get it out. If it is loose or partially plugged it can cause problems also.
Edit: Reinstall the diffuser tube.
Regards,
Joe
IMHO
A problem with Delorto PHMs is that the needle and needle jet rub together and cause the needle jet and needle to get worn, causing the mixture at idle and up to 1/16 or so throttle to become too rich.
Folks start tweaking the idle mixture screw and or lowering the needle to compensate for the idle richness. Ultimately, the condition causes the kind of trouble schultzy is describing; hard starting and erratic rough running at partial throttle (do to excessive leanness).
I have had it happen on my 00 501 4 times now in 10,000 miles. The final symptom is running rough at partial throttle with the needle on clip 2 and the fuel screw 1 to 1 1/4 turn out. Hard starting (lean). fair idle, but rough running at partial throttle and popping under deceleration.
Replace the needle jet and needle and the problem is fixed.
Then you may want to go back to the 40 pilot jet.
While you have the pilot jet out you may want to remove the diffuser tube way down in the same hole the pilot jet is in. Careful, it takes a small blade screw driver to get it out. If it is loose or partially plugged it can cause problems also.
Edit: Reinstall the diffuser tube.
Regards,
Joe
Joined Jul 2001
3K Posts | 1+
El Sobrante, Ca. 94803
I do have an upgrade package available for the PHM 40.
Such requires sending the carburetor.
Most end results are plug n play.
Cost is $150.00 plus parts, S/H/I.
Most often $200.00 will cover it.
Best Regards,
Dale
Such requires sending the carburetor.
Most end results are plug n play.
Cost is $150.00 plus parts, S/H/I.
Most often $200.00 will cover it.
Best Regards,
Dale
thanks guys,JoeUSA seems to describe best what is happening,Think I will call Andy at Euromotors tomorrow and order what I need,if that fails its off to California and see what Dale can do.Just finished my dualsport kit and went for a test run,besides my problem down low the rest of my range seems great!Hoping those DRZ,s will see nothing but taillights and turnsignals at Rights of Spring this year! This site has been awesome!If it wasnt for here I think the bike would end up in the back of the garage just taking up space!You guys are great! Werner
Joined Apr 2002
3K Posts | 11+
Phoenix Arizona
Hey guys,
I am aware of the DelOrto wear issues and that perhaps the slide is completely wrong for the bike. I have told many people the same thing about the needle and jet wear. It just seems that their usual concern is about a rich condition or fuel consumption. I am just trying to say, dont rule out the possibility of mechanical issues as well. Even a poor running Elduro will smoke a DRZ any day of the week.
Just giving you my 2 cents....and believe me, thats all it's worth :wink:
I am aware of the DelOrto wear issues and that perhaps the slide is completely wrong for the bike. I have told many people the same thing about the needle and jet wear. It just seems that their usual concern is about a rich condition or fuel consumption. I am just trying to say, dont rule out the possibility of mechanical issues as well. Even a poor running Elduro will smoke a DRZ any day of the week.
Just giving you my 2 cents....and believe me, thats all it's worth :wink:
Joined Jun 2001
1K Posts | 3+
Berkshire, England
Hi Guys,
Just picked up on this thread. As Joe quite right points out, the jetting is neither stock 01/02 or 03. It's off an 01 650. The reason it isn't as per the stock settings is that in 01 the stock jettings were so way off you'd lose your way home if you followed them. The jetting I sent to schultzy were those that we had founf to work best on the 01 in standard road legal trim - enduro exhaust etc.
Needle is the K51 and as per usual Joe is spot on, if you're having problems with the idle and it can't be dialled out using idle or mixture screw, then the next place to look is the needle clip position. The needle in the carb that I sent to schultzy was pretty much new so wear would not be a problem on that one.
One other item to consider is that the idle speed screw may be screwed in too far thus allowing too much air and reducing the vacuum pickup to the idle jet, thus causing the lean conditions you're speaking off. In addition you'd be transfering some of the running to the needle jet and needle at idle with this problem too. To see, turn the spped screw in all the way and count the number of turns until it stops.
As for mechanical issue, yes, valve adjustment could possible be out but in my experience I haven't noticed that using the start circuit helps with that. If it is valve timing that is incorrect you'd also notice the engine running rough at other rpm not just at idle.
Hope this helps,
Simon
Just picked up on this thread. As Joe quite right points out, the jetting is neither stock 01/02 or 03. It's off an 01 650. The reason it isn't as per the stock settings is that in 01 the stock jettings were so way off you'd lose your way home if you followed them. The jetting I sent to schultzy were those that we had founf to work best on the 01 in standard road legal trim - enduro exhaust etc.
Needle is the K51 and as per usual Joe is spot on, if you're having problems with the idle and it can't be dialled out using idle or mixture screw, then the next place to look is the needle clip position. The needle in the carb that I sent to schultzy was pretty much new so wear would not be a problem on that one.
One other item to consider is that the idle speed screw may be screwed in too far thus allowing too much air and reducing the vacuum pickup to the idle jet, thus causing the lean conditions you're speaking off. In addition you'd be transfering some of the running to the needle jet and needle at idle with this problem too. To see, turn the spped screw in all the way and count the number of turns until it stops.
As for mechanical issue, yes, valve adjustment could possible be out but in my experience I haven't noticed that using the start circuit helps with that. If it is valve timing that is incorrect you'd also notice the engine running rough at other rpm not just at idle.
Hope this helps,
Simon
Hey Simon!Good to hear from you!Found one of your old messages you sent me in Oct.You mentioned possibly changing to a 35 pilot jet and someone else mentioned going to a 40,so what the hell!I ordered both.My idle speed screw is definetly not screwed in to far,I am guessing at least5 full turns out.I have been trying to dial it with What I read on the site and it just doesnt seem to be working!It seems so close I can taste it!Hopefully the jets will do the trick! Thanks!
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