CVS CVR needles

Taffy · Aug 23, 2008

just to let you'll know i've been informed recently what the CVS anfd CVR honda needles REALLY are!

i'd been told aboput two years ago that they are a dual taper. i asked no more questions because like you, i have plenty to do and in the jetting world, i had set tasks to do like the drilled atomiser.

it now turns out that it has a taper of only 30 minutes.

JUST TO RECAP
THE D SERIES HAVE A 45 MINUTE TAPER
THE E SERIES HAVE A 1 DEGREE TAPER

D series
excellent trail needle, pop that wheel up, no dead spots. top end feels ok until you try the:

E series! needle. this has a far thinner tip but a later taper start. it is ok at the bottom, can have the occasional flat spot if not set up well but has a rasping top end!

now, unless the C series has found a little edge in popping that front wheel up it can't possibly be a better needle from third gear on! the D series isn't and the C series is even fatter!

my advice for anyone interested in a good husey is to get a lineaweaver needle! after 300 test runs testing the D and E series, the lineaweaver needle was a brilliant mix of these two. alas dale only has about P straight which is a little rich but other than that - its perfection!

regards

Taffy

timberger · Aug 23, 2008

How can I get a lineweaver needle Down Under?

Taffy · Aug 23, 2008

the man is virtually impossible ton get in touch with. he's like that film with the guy "sossey".

all you can do is try!

regards

Taffy

JoeUSA · Aug 23, 2008

Re: RE: CVS CVR needles

timberger said:
How can I get a lineweaver needle Down Under?

E-mail Dale at [email protected]

Call dale at 1 (510) 223-9052

He is out in the field a lot, building and tuning racing bikes............so be patient!

Joe

Gokai134 · Aug 25, 2008

RE: Re: RE: CVS CVR needles

just wanted to add my expierence comparing the DMS needle versus the Honda CVS/R .

DMS: very nice to control from idle, but it feels like if the DMS is asking you to use always a bit more throttle - which is big fun in an open area and/or with smaller displacements. Best choice for a fast wood rider, makes you grin the whole day
the Honda needles do have a far better throttle response from idle to about 1/2 throttle, very, very controllable and accurate.

As IÃ‚Â´m no professional rider and own a FE550, top end wasnÃ‚Â´t my target.
My personal choice for tricky wood riding is the Honda Series, although the DMS makes more fun to ride.
Guess it all depends on riding area, riding abilities and displacement.

peter

bushmechanic · Aug 26, 2008

Just an idea to add Re the DL needles

I'm doing this if I can ever stop mucking about with the forks

if you have one and like Taffy think that the straight is too small after the air jets are working properly then............

its not impossible or expensive to buy a brass say EKQ DMS or whatever needle you worked out to be either right or too big at the appropriate points and then stick it in an electric drill, and very gently reduce the diamter as required with #600.

just an idea

regards
Bushie

timberger · Aug 28, 2008

And a realistic idea, I have done the same thing to S.U. (Hitachi) needles.

It gets fun when you are trying to get two or three needles identical though.

It does take a while to get the feel of how much material is coming off and where it is coming off. I found that marking the needle with a felt pen whilst in the carby was the best way to identify where the material needs to be removed.

Tim

bushmechanic · Aug 28, 2008

ahh sounds very good Tim

very curious to see what needle shapes you end up with

timberger · Aug 28, 2008

Desperate times call for desperate measures, trying to get a my racecar through 3/4 throttle on raceday.

And to be honest the S.U. is a lot simpler to deal with than the FCR. Needle taper is directly equal to fuel going in. These FCR's are quite an amazing carby and I am not at a point that I would start playing with needle tapers yet.

Tim

Taffy · Sep 18, 2008

ok lads

did some measuring of the needles in my stock tonight and the CVS and CVR needles ARE dual taper!

they start with a C taper of 30 minutes and then they go straight to 1 degree 0 minutes.

i was able to test the Lineaweaver needles i hold as well and also my D series, E series, F series and G series as well. did a whole lot of measuring!!!!!!

the CVS/CVR will be good needles i suspect. i hold one i've been lent by sparks but have yet to test it! but armed with my JD spreadsheet and by wetting my index finger and holding it to the wind i think i can come up with a snappy lil ol needle all of my own.

after all i have dynod these beauties and have the numbers!

regards

Taffy

bushmechanic · Sep 18, 2008

Taff needles......awesome I've been waiting for that since you bought that lil lathe

lemme know if you want one quietly tested

Regards
Bushie

DaleEO · Sep 19, 2008

Thanks for measuring all that out Taffy. Looks like my info to you was wrong, so glad you got that straightened out.

timberger · Sep 25, 2008

OK,

It is agreed that the Honda needle is worth a try.

I went to the bigest Honda dealer in Western Australia, and asked the spares guy for an NCVS and an NCVR. After about twenty minutes of looking at his PC he tells me there is no such items used on any CRF450X/R in Australia.

He then tells me that Honda U.S.A. and Honda Australia use different part No.? he then ask's me what I am going to use the needle for, the look I got when I said it would be used on a Berg was priceless. It was at this point that I walked out for fear of getting an assult charge.

For those people that have bought the the Honda needles could you please let me know what year and make they are out of. I am determined to beat these halfwit parts guys one day. (dont get me started on Yamaha dealers)

(Sorry to any parts guys that read this, I am sure if you are on this forum you would not be a halfwit!)

Tim

ned37 · Sep 26, 2008

try honda part number 16233-MEN671 for the ncvs. dunno bout the r.
most dealer parts depts w/o a clue are just dealing w/ what's on the page and don't have any idea of its spec.

buzzard · Sep 26, 2008

I used the parts manual for a 2004 CRF450-R. Honda changed the needles they use in later years. The part #s I have are: NCVR = 16232-MEN-671 , NCVQ = 16231-MEN-671 , NCYS = 16204-MEN-671 . The NCYS is cut the same as an NCVS, however the clip positions are 1/2 clip pos different. In other words, pos 3 on one of them = pos 3.5 on the other. Gives you some pretty fine tuning options, and yes, there is an NCYR.

There has been a lot of discussion about what needle is THE needle to use. There isn't one. On my own bike, the needle that I needed, the one that gave the best performance, changed as I modified other things. By that I mean 1) changing the amount of charge and timing of the accelerator pump 2) exhaust/muffler mods and changes 3) other carb mods. I am presently using the NCVR, and am quite satisfied with it. This is on a 2004 450.

bushmechanic · Sep 26, 2008

http://www.sudco.com/

they will have brass needes I think, not 100% sure on that but the honda ones ive seen are anodised ally

brass is better for customising.

might be good to get an adjustable PAJ as well.

I bet you can get the right part quicker, cheaper and easier direct from the US than from drongo spare parts dorks here in oz! if they ask "whats it for mate ?" then you know its gonna cost an arm and a leg and take at least a month to arrive.

regards
Bushie

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