cam chain rattle 70° FE450

Hrosiiik · Mar 10, 2021

Hi, I have FE450 2011 300+ hours on engine and my timing chain is rattling like this i guess.

I want to ask. If I will change timing chain for a new one, is it ok? Or I will need to change timing chain and timing chain tensioner?

I dont like manual cam chain tensioner. Dirt trics cant buy here.

I found this automatic mechanical and hydraulic cam chain tensioner for ktm 530. Any experience?

https://www.brumla.com/sponovak-rozvodoveho-retezu-ktm-530exc-r-08-11-e177-m14-177-2009-47810.htm

Taffy · Mar 11, 2021

I raced and green laned a 570 for 3 years. all I did was undo the two bolts holding the CCT by 1/2 a turn and you can hear a click. even if yoiu don't hear it, just undo it a little and then tighten it and start the bike up.

I did it 3 times in three years. it worked a treat. everyone seems to **** themselves though so I am just happy that I was happy.for me!

Taffy

Hrosiiik · Mar 11, 2021

Are you trying to say. Change cam chain for new one and everything will be ok?

Taffy · Mar 11, 2021

maybe your automatic tensioner cannot adjust, by undoing it a little it can 'click' one place.

that is what I am saying

Taffy

webmonstro · Mar 11, 2021

Taffy said:
I raced and green laned a 570 for 3 years. all I did was undo the two bolts holding the CCT by 1/2 a turn and you can hear a click. even if yoiu don't hear it, just undo it a little and then tighten it and start the bike up.

I did it 3 times in three years. it worked a treat. everyone seems to **** themselves though so I am just happy that I was happy.for me!

Taffy

70° bergs don't have that kind of tensioner. It's a hydraulic type under a single bolt cap. So you can't do that on these

Nuno

Rainerio · Mar 11, 2021

Take out your tensioner you’ll see it’s a ratcheting type and automatic if working right not hydraulic. Taffy is right. You can buy manual tensioner.

Taffy · Mar 12, 2021

webmonstro said:
70° bergs don't have that kind of tensioner. It's a hydraulic type under a single bolt cap. So you can't do that on these

Nuno

sorry Nuno but they do. you are 100% wrong. find out how it is made first.

Taffy

webmonstro · Mar 15, 2021

Taffy said:
sorry Nuno but they do. you are 100% wrong. find out how it is made first.

Taffy

You said to undo the two bolts. the 70 degree berg does not have two bolts holding the tensioner. only one big one holding the housing.
Also the tensioner does have a internal locking mechanism but it will compress under tension if not backed by the hydraulic pressure and when worn out.

Nuno

webmonstro · Mar 15, 2021

Rainerio said:
Take out your tensioner you’ll see it’s a ratcheting type and automatic if working right not hydraulic. Taffy is right. You can buy manual tensioner.

I have already replaced with a manual one.
The OEM one has a ratchet mechanism but is also pushed by hydraulic pressure. there is a oil gallery directed to it. As you need to compres it to set it up the rachet mechanism will collapse if you push it so letting it expand one "click" then tighing it down again will not work

The noise is from the rachet mechanism that is worn out and letting the tensinor compress and expand. So it will just do it again

Nuno

Rainerio · Mar 16, 2021

I have a 450 70* motor it’s apart so I look at where the tensioner is I see a oil passage so weres is the hydraulic pressure coming from? the motor has a oil pump taking oil to top end and gravity takes it down. So that passage is for lubrication only. If I’m wrong explain to Me how. The OEM tensioner work off of spring pressure. There’s no passage coming from the pump.

Taffy · Mar 16, 2021

It's a long while ago now and it did work. You're right, the LDC engines only had the central bolt and I recall undoing the cap, unscrewing or screwing in the helix in and out and then putting the cap back on and it was sorted. Before the manual ones came along it is what people did. I did it for the few that came here for work. so, I'm sorry mate but....

My ratchet wasn't knackered so a click was a click as far as I was concerned. My CCT just had a job getting to the next click and I helped it.

Taffy

webmonstro · Mar 16, 2021

Taffy said:
It's a long while ago now and it did work. You're right, the LDC engines only had the central bolt and I recall undoing the cap, unscrewing or screwing in the helix in and out and then putting the cap back on and it was sorted. Before the manual ones came along it is what people did. I did it for the few that came here for work. so, I'm sorry mate but....

My ratchet wasn't knackered so a click was a click as far as I was concerned. My CCT just had a job getting to the next click and I helped it.

Taffy

I understand that, but if it's makining alot of noise it's most likely knackered and will just get loose again when the cam chain applies pressure.

The fundamental difference between these and the older two bolt design is that the older type will not retract once extended no mather how much pressuer is put opon it

This type will colpase when pushed down, as to fit it it is necessary too do so as described in the manual and known as the 2 washer or coin method.

When they are worn out they just push down easier

webmonstro · Mar 16, 2021

Rainerio said:
I have a 450 70* motor it’s apart so I look at where the tensioner is I see a oil passage so weres is the hydraulic pressure coming from? the motor has a oil pump taking oil to top end and gravity takes it down. So that passage is for lubrication only. If I’m wrong explain to Me how. The OEM tensioner work off of spring pressure. There’s no passage coming from the pump.

That oil passage comes from the head and does have oil pressue, it's not gravity only. That's why there is a o-ring to keep oil from just falling down.

Tha's why they are noisier on start-up until the pressure bilds up.
I know there is also a spring in the system but it also relies on oil pressure

Rainerio · Mar 17, 2021

What I did was to remove the cap/screw of the tensioner started my 390 oil did oozed out I put my finger over the hole to stop it. It was so little pressure that would have little to no affect on the tensioner. So technically webmonstro your right but that pressure that the spring is doing 99% of the work. At best the pressure is a buffer but that is all. No spring no tensioner! Later I went back to bike did the test again but this time I revved the for the most no difference in pressure.

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