Billet cylinder head

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do you know - I understood all of that! :p :p

good luck with that Mats. I get the feeling you'll now wish you could go to a billet plain bearing crank. that means a greater oil supply and that means.....

you'll be creating more heat as well.....

so I ask in anticipation if you might have considered these three problems?

crank
oil supply
cooling

one thing you may consider is drilling into the top of the left shelf just above the oil supply and fitting oil jets to spray oil up under the piston and on the liner.

regards

Taffy
 
I have no expectations on reliability from this engine. If it lasts a whole weekend (2-2,5 hours), I'm happy. When the EFI and mapping works allright, I'm considering a 80mm stroke crank, steel liner and 104 mm bore. Or just make a new crankcase alltogether, stealing internals from what works best... The steel liner would transfer heat better and I'll just have to study the colour of the small end to see if it works.
 
I think Thomas at Engienhardwear could offer you very good advice there.

you'll know of JBS racings work with a better water pump and a better oil pump. to me, it is far, far, far more technical than that. hydro cavatation etc.

have a good look maybe at fitting an oil pressure guage in the left casing.

regards

Taffy
 
Thanks, for all tips and advices, Taffy!
To me, at this moment, it is a bit premature. First I need to get this bugger running at all, then I will have to take care of possible reliability problems.

Now I have got all electronics to upgrade the MS1 to a MS3. I have also modified the throttle body to fit a universal TPS and wired it all together. So all set for downloading firmware and program the MS3 and then start mapping!
 
I just feel that a shed load of unreliability is around the corner.

think about it, Thomas had all kinds of trouble with way less power than you.

the problem with these trachiodal and roller mains is that they sit right on the edge of the maximum permissible revs. and when the spec sheet says 'revs' it means a nice 'cute' shaft spinning and not a crankshaft running hickledy-pickeldy.

the idea of a special ball mains with the angled grooves with billet crank appeals. I had them in my Pantah in 1980. You just had to love Doctor T (are you related? LOL!!!) the man was ahead of his time.

I just think that if you aren't going into this winter with a worn out bike that you have the opportunity to assess the cooling and oil feed sides.

I know a couple of crank makers if you need them.

regards

Taffy
 
Hooray! Now the engine goes bap-bap-bap-whaaiiiiing.....bap-bap-bap....
Revs without a doubt to 9k with 75 RWHP already at 6,5k. This can be difficult to handle out of the corners, where a smooth delivery is wanted. Now some fine tuning before the coming weekends races.

The Megasquirt 3 offers the possibility to log data on an built in SD-memory. Now when the lambda is working all right (stable power from LiPo-batteries), I can log data all the time and correct fuel map afterwards in the pits! :rock:

Now I'm getting closer to the shed of worries, Taffy! You can find me there, under a heap of broken mains! :D
 
oh mate! I hope not!

just call me the "devil's advocate".

you'll find that a capped con rod will hit everything in the bottom of the cases.

great to hear that you'll get out on it at least once this season! you gotta have some cake just to keep you going.

now how many Euros is that to KM ridden..... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

regards

Taffy
 
whaou !!!

75 rwhp at 6.5 k , it's just great :wink: , having myself 70 rwhp at 6.5 k i can immagine what are the numbers at 8.5 k , over 85 for sure :wink: , i suppose about 90 , that's mega cool

great job Dr-c , i know what it means to get that kind result , and reliability it's just a matter of work , you'll get it :wink:

i'll be interested to see your torque dyno graph , it will help me for my work , if you like :wink:
 
Mats

did you consider drilling into that top shelf that is on the left for oil squirting onto the underside of the piston?

you can buy the jest from the 2004+ they even have three sizes to choose from. I often thought that having two would be excellent with them 'X' to the two thrust faces.

regards

Taffy
 
I have considered all possible kinds of improvements, but as previously mentioned, it's a tad premature. I have other things to worry about first... :?

IMAG0241.jpg
 
my condolences go out to your loved one :arrow: :D :| :(I can only imagine how great of a ride it is before that happens...
 
Ouch 8O
What happened? Was thinking it ran lean but then thought the exhaust valve would have let go if it was lean, not the inlet.

Is the head fixable or do you have to CNC a new one?

Sad to see this picture.
 
Well, one of the normal casualties of the speed war.. :wink:

Thanks for the condoleances!

The inlet valves were in contact with the piston. I believe this made one valve break. Exactly why this happened remains to be clarified. I was very cautious with the piston-to-valve clearances, so an untimely valve event seems most likely at this time.

The head was machined from a material well suited for welding, with cases like this in mind. I had two heads machined, so there is another one to use, if necessary.

The bike puts out a lot of power on an instant by 0-10% throttle. This was difficult to handle in the rain, so I may have to back off on the ignition advance right there.
 
that's a sh** Mats

Taff's diagnosis from afar

Inlet valve failure
other inlet hasn't been touching so....
exhaust valves only touched because when the inlet touched it jolted the valve timing making the exhausts only hit the piston either at the second of failure or second leading up to.

the fretted marks on the piston will tell more than the head i think?

if it is an OEM valve (and I don't think it is) then the inlets let go more than the exhausts. I (from afar) think that the 'ice cold' back and 'flaming front' is all too much for them...

if it isn't OEM then I would look at the percussion of the cam profile. it maybe all too much timponium for the percussion section?

regards

Taffy
 
Thanks for the input, Taffy!
The piston has clear marks from being in contact with both inlet valves. Why, remains as the big question.
 
very sorry for you Dr-C :(

i had an trouble like this last year , with an 12 mm cam lift , care with the valves spring rate ,strange rebound can happen sometimes

i solve these troubles with new spings , my inlet valve weight is 42 grams and my springs are 40 kg seated and 98 kg open and now it works perfectely to 9500 k :wink:

it also can be a simple valve failure , i had that to :( ( with ferrea TI valve )
 
Dr_C said:
Thanks for the input, Taffy!
The piston has clear marks from being in contact with both inlet valves. Why, remains as the big question.
Click to expand...

if it is just carbon removal it is like the last second, something that has been doing it for a minute will have made a fretted curve in the piston. it is also a good sign of quality parts that they tried to take it for so long.

regards

Taffy
 
I have had my local machine shop do the upper side of the piston for me. So the angle of the valve pocket is down to tenths of a degree equali to that of the valve. So when/if the valve hits the piston, the contact surface will be quite large. In the photo of the piston, you can clearly see the concave shape of the valve as an imprint in the valve pocket. It might not show very well in the photo, but there are marks in both valve pockets.

Kolv.jpg


My inlet valves are 66-67 grams. At seated position the double springs are 36,0mm and gives around 20-25kg. At max lift (12mm for exhaust and 13mm for intake) The spring force is around 100-110kg. I have been revving a lot during numerous dyno runs, and split the engine 3-4 times during those initial tests. No sign of contact between valves and piston, other than when the intake cam sprocket came loose. That was however lucky, as it happened during idling and no valves were bent! I guess that luck ran out...

I published a video describing the challenges since "first fire": [youtube:jau5t5yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkDYR7Ty_IQ[/youtube:jau5t5yt]
 
I was given valve angles once by Steve Wynne (if I have to say who he was then ....) and he gave me angles that were over a degree away from the supposed valve angles of 30d (60 included), when my valves hit the piston they hit it evenly everywhere and didn't bend.

images


but I have to say that your valve pockets appear to be too steep. the valves have been hitting the piston nearer the stem than the outside edge if that makes sense to you.

it also means that if you have been checking the valve to piston in the depth of the pocket you have been getting a generous reading and the real danger was up nearer the crown of the piston..... oh dear!

remember that the piston rocks either side of TDC and due to your extreme valve timing the piston will be leaning hard one way then hard the other and each time for different pairs of valves.

the figures I have from SW wanted the valve pocket 'flatter' on the inlet and 'steeper' on the exhaust (if I recall - but it is in my book just above my head).

finally, I can't see it but it looks like piston ring laying on the piston............

regards

Taffy
 

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