All About Valve Springs! (with nice pics)

Hello Husa fans!!!

Searching on the forum about Dual springs, I discovered that the KTM 83036028044 code was almost the same with the Husa code for fc 450 dual springs (80036028044). :?:

Today I went to KTM for buying some parts for my Bergi.
I asked the guy on parts about the availabillity of DVSK 83036028044 and told him that it is a KTM code to avoid searching problem as I dont know how their catalog apears to them... The guy answered me that is KTM and HUSABEG code TOO....

I think now we can accept that those KTM duals are the same with the Husa FC 450 (04-05).

I dont know if that was mentioned on another topic. Thought good idea to right about.


Regards
Sotosberg

yes the 83036028044 fits our engines known as the ktm ATV set $65

http://www.ktmpartshouse.com/fiche_sele ... 3036028044

they are almost exactly the same as the set on ebay UK except for the price they have the same coil count and wire diameter but they are not the same springs .... the ATV set is slightly better but its a 98% match

BUT the best set of duals is the kibblewhite set, lighter and softer and can be installed at the right length see below

these figures are measured in a stock head with uncut seats and stock valves on brand new springs, they are what you get if you just get the kits and install them

nose pressure measured at an additional 10mm lift similar to the stock cam profile.

oem conical seated 72lbs, an additional 10mm lift gave 238lbs

kibblewhite duals seated 72lbs and 200lbs peak

KTM ATV duals, seated 80lbs and 228peak

UK duals, with 0.1mm thick shims as lower springs seats (my idea, doesn't work) seated 76lbs and peak 232lbs. FWIW it is claimed that their seated force is 87lbs... its not.... but if it were then the peak force after 10mm lift from there is over the oem 240lbs

another shortcoming of the UK set and the atv springs is that safe useful lift from their as installed height is limited to the stock 08 cam profile

the weights are:

oem conicals, retainer 11gm, spring 40gm

kibblewhite duals, retainer 7.75gm, springs 37gm

KTM ATV duals, retainer 13.25gm, springs 54gms

UK duals, retainer 13.8gm springs 56gm

an added advantage of the kibblewhites is that if needed you can machine the lower spring seat and install them at a longer spring length (equivalent to about 39mm including retainer and seat) for a seated force of only 60 lbs, an additional 10mm lift from there gives you 180lbs peak.

without longer valves or a serious seat re-cut it is not possible to install the other 2 dual kits at a length that reduces the loads on the valve train by a useful amount but if you have a set they are worth installing for reliability and piece of mind.

Click to expand...

http://www.dirtbikeworld.net/forum/show ... hp?t=95952

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15504&start=30

Bit more info Regarding the KW springs.

the "correct" springs are KW # 96-69000 for the KTM RFS 400, 520, 525 and 540 up till 2007. the springs listed for the 450 are different

springs only RRP is $54.20 for a set of 8

Titanium retainers RRP $108.67

hardened steel base washers RRP $30.59

as a kit as I wrote you can sometimes find them listed cheap on ebay. they are often listed for the KTM "ATV" or 525.

if you need some in a hurry obviously rocky mountain ATV is the go but the price for a kit there is $197

Click to expand...

Now everything is very clear and according numbers! I was curious for years,trying to understand the hole DVSK story.I had read some topic replies over the years about spring seat height but never was cleared to me. Correct me if I am wrong,but if I understand it correctly, the reduced DVSK force succeeded when the top of the cam nose passes the valve head and the valve begin to close?

Thanks for the precious info Bushmechanic!!!

sotosberg said:

Now everything is very clear and according numbers! I was curious for years,trying to understand the hole DVSK story.I had read some topic replies over the years about spring seat height but never was cleared to me. Correct me if I am wrong,but if I understand it correctly,

the reduced DVSK force succeeded when the top of the cam nose passes the valve head and the valve begin to close?

Thanks for the precious info Bushmechanic!!!

Click to expand...

no problem sotosberg

ned37 said:

roll eyes :roll:

Click to expand...

Ned, old fella, :roll: It is nice to be able to share the Truth :wink: you didn't really think id start posting again if sharing the figures about these springs was still not permitted :lol:

yes Sotosberg the overall spring rate of all the dual spring kits is lower than that of the oem conicals so for the same lift the peak and average force is less.

the work done in rotating the cam is a function of the average force applied during the lift.. dependent primarily on the spring rate ie.. it is not soley a function of the seated force because thats just the starting point .... also if the valve is seated.. then the cam isn't in even in contact with the rockers

the average force and work done is why a dual kit can have a higher seated force but still require less power to turn the cam.

when a valve closes it does not snap shut in one go. it bounces a number of times before it settles. this increases the valve and seat wear

the dual springs help with wear because they rub together and damp out the minute bouncing of the valves as they seat. ie less wear.

because of the damping you can run duals at a lower seated force than conicals which in turn reduces the peak force a little more and further reduces the work done in turning the cam

BUT you must get a set that are short enough to allow installation at the lower seated force

so based on HP increase (weight/ power required) , valve/seat wear reduction and ease of installation:

the best set are the kibblewhites

the cheapest set is the KTM ATV set

the UK set is not quite as good as the ATV set

to find this out I bought a new set of each type ... happy to share the info but now I have a set of ATV and UK springs I can't give away :twisted: :twisted: 8O

Oooo,you made something nice but costy!!! You tried them all... Really helpful info!

I didnt knew that the duals dump the valves more effective too,I had in mind only the lowered force that consume.

Best Regards
Sotiris

forgot to add regarding the 60lb seated with the KW 96-96000 set I get a little float at 8000 rpm with OS valves and the 08 cam

65lbs would be better for that cam/valves

Interesting, I have the stock cam. As I have seen in some youtube dyno actions, with a slip on mufler and a filter they reach top power at 7000 rpm. When I istalled the fc stator, fc CDI and the starter removed, didnt expect to rev a lot more,just easier. I will let know after dyno...if I reach 8000 or more and what happend...

Maybe flying valves...over the head??? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Regards
Sotosberg

i think the 8500 limit is quite safe really but please make a vid in case

in the DOC there is a part number for the KW set that has been superseded

only one available now is 96-96000 with the springs themselves being 96-96002

the main cost in the kit is the Ti retainers .. they cost more than the springs (twice as much) , springs only are $55

Kibblewhite said:

96-96030, 96-96031 and 96-96033 have been superseded by 96-96000 I do not have the specs for the superseded parts. However what is available is on our website which I have linked below. I hope this is helpful!

http://valvetrain.kpmivalvetrain.com/it ... r=&by=prod

Click to expand...

Yeah,I saw that on KPMI catalog as you mention. They have code for each part separately.
-retainers=96-96001
-springs=96-96002
-Basewashers=96-96003

And the kit is listed as Item # 96-96000 Item

http://valvetrain.kpmivalvetrain.com/it ... 9/96-96000?

Really...so much Titanium left from the cancellation of F-35 fighter in US...could be cheaper...The fact is that might the Titanium machining knifes are costy too...

If,with these tiny changes, the engine reach 8000 rpm, I will be very surprised
I read somewhere the specs of 2005 FC 550 and the max power was at 7700 rpm. It has also 11.8:1 comp in addition with the 11.5:1(if I remember correctly) of 628 engine.

Positive think always !!!!!

Regards

Great to see you back on here Bushie. Did the ashes test scores give you some courage.....?

I have a set of the kibblewhite's inc. Ti retainers going into my 380 build. Will be interesting to see how they perform.
Im also having the head ported & flow benched so hopeful I might set some more RPMs.


Sent from my GT-N5120 using Tapatalk

nice one Blunny

cricket? nah I don't get into one ball sports :twisted:

it was Schwim selling the site to his alter ego Mr Zen,

Blunny said:

Great to see you back on here Bushie. Did the ashes test scores give you some courage.....?

Click to expand...

I was enjoying this thread until then Blunny!
We could have saved a lot of time and just posted them over to you guys, care of Mitchell Johnson. (That's the Ashes not our team!)


Back to springs; I have the quad DVSK's in both of mine with no issues, they don't get a really hard life but sound a lot quieter than with the conicals.
Thanks to Faust too whose posts at the time gave me the confidence to try them in the first place. :cheers:

Someplace in here I got lost as to application. Will the Kibblewhite valve kit work in the older real husaberg engines or are we talking only the 70 degree recent models and beyond now?

Old gen! Old? Classic beautiful generation bikes! The raw pure anorexic motors with incredibly entertaining anger problems!

ha! I dont come over to this forum much but I love reading stuff about the 'true' Berg's.




Sent from my GT-N5120 using Tapatalk

rsarroyo said:

Someplace in here I got lost as to application. Will the Kibblewhite valve kit work in the older real husaberg engines or are we talking only the 70 degree recent models and beyond now?

Click to expand...

this thread relates to the real bergs, not the top heavy wallowing bling horsies of 09+

bushmechanic said:

rsarroyo said:

Someplace in here I got lost as to application. Will the Kibblewhite valve kit work in the older real husaberg engines or are we talking only the 70 degree recent models and beyond now?

Click to expand...

this thread relates to the real bergs, not the top heavy wallowing bling horsies of 09+

Click to expand...

hahah ... hey!!

Hello and happy new year!

The last day of 2013 I received the Kibblewhite dual valve spring kit.

The installed height is 28.86 so its ok according the owners doc (29.65 - 29.9mm).

I weighted them and the scale show me:

-63 for the DVSK (springs including titanium retainer and steel base washer)

-61 for the OEM conical (spring including OEM steel retainer and steel base washer)

Was trying to upload a photo of the weighted springs but couldn't do it...

Now I am going to install them and see how the engine works with them. Waiting for gaskets....