Aftermarket fuel pump

Sounds like my bike, was a loose wire inside the loom near the shock never had a problem since, I think your dealer should send it back to husaberg or keep it tll he finds the problem

BRN2RDE said:

After chasing this problem for the last 6 months or so, I am finally going to call it quits. I can take the bike apart when it runs bad, put it back together, and it will be fine. For awhile. Then, back to running like crap. It is for sure an electrical issue, causing the injector to not function properly. I have changed out the injector, pump, filters, disassembled, cleaned and greased all the connectors, and I am officially at a total loss. It is not a 'heat' issue, because once it starts running bad, it does even when cold.

So, anyone want a smokin deal on a 09 450? Never raced(by angry midgets) Runs great when it runs great. Otherwise, not so much. This really was my favorite 4 stroke of all time, but I need to get past this breaking down thing.

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I'm sorry to hear that. I can appreciate the frustration! I've only had one ride on mine, and it did two odd things: the tough restarting, and twice it bogged (at the base of the same hill while I was getting a run at it!). I've now got a CA-Cycle pump and Gates line at home, ready to be installed if it continues. I also wrapped the header and did the tank protection. We shall see if that helps. I also wrapped an old inner tube around the harness near the rear shock to prevent it chafing.

I wonder if there is something to investigate based on the very lean condition that you noted earlier? Mine has what I would describe as a normal amount of black soot in the pipe. It's not unheard of for a FI bike to be very lean and have a clean pipe, but it does seem a little odd.

I know you've checked all the connectors, but I would consider removing the whole harness to investigate. Or - when it has died, can you trace back the failure point? If there's no spark, is there power to the coil? If not, route back from there.

Best of luck with it. Let us know if there's anything you want me to try on my bike to see if the result is the same.

Mine was so frustrating!!! Drove me mad, my fried who's an auto electrician Sussed it in no time, where as the dealers were very helpful especially simon at Midwest it was clearly very difficult to diagnose, it even gave a fault code of 5 long flashes, one minute my bike would run, then it would stop and nothing for hours without the bike moving!!!!! Listen there's that many of these bikes that run sweet, that it's fixable when you find it, this bike is awesome !! Don't give up!!!

Mine was a connection, deep inside the loom,3 wires to 1 it just seemed to point to so many different things that's what makes it so frustrating, because my friend was an auto electrician, right from the off he said there was a broken wire or poor connection somewhere, rather than get ripped off for a new loom which are so over priced he was going to make me one, but he found the culprit once we took out the loom and opened it all up, he then replaced that whole wire with new and some of his own connectors, now it's perfect again, and by far the best bike I've ever owned happy ))

BRN2RDE said:

Spent some quality time with my Husaberg after work today. Stripped it right down to begin tracking down the problem. Once again, I beleive I have found the issue: A bad or faulty connector at the fuel injector.

What I did was remove the subframe and tank, then I jigged up the tank to be connected, fuel and power wise to the bike, but sitting on a cart next to the bike.
The bike still ran poorly, so without wiggling much of anything, I loosened up the throttle body and removed the injector. For kicks, I then re-installed the injector and the bike ran poorly again. Removed the injector, swapped in the same injector I had removed a few weeks ago because it was running bad. Started it up multiple times, and it ran perfectly. Go figure. Rather than just put it back together, I once again removed the injector, and swapped it with the one I had JUST removed, put it back together, runs perfectly.

With that, I believe I have the issue narrowed down to that one connector. I was very careful to not disturb anything else, so I think I got it. I then removed the connector, cleaned it really well, greased it up with dielectic grease, and put it back together. Runs perfectly.

Whether or not the problem returns, time will tell, but at least I am pretty confident I have the culprit. Anyone know where I could find that particular connector, to replace it outright should the problem return?

Pessimistally optimistic,

BRN2RDE

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I hope you're onto it this time. Like so many have said, they are great bikes but the electrical gremlins can be frustrating to say the least.

Subscribing. Seems like some good info here that hopefully i'll never need to make use of...

Update on my fuel pump change out to the ca-cycleworks pump. I switched back to the OEM pump even though it has heat issues. I was prepping Friday night for my Saturday race. I had just finished hosing off my bike and was going to start it up to help dry it off. It wouldn't start. My first thought was that I got water in somewhere that it shouldn't be since I rode it the previous Sunday and it was fine. I fiddled with the spark plug cap thinking that may be the issue and it started but wouldn't idle and would die if I tried to give it any throttle. Then it wouldn't start at all. Every time I would hit the starter I could hear the pump running so I knew I didn't have an electrical problem related to the pump.

As I started my investigation my first approach was looking at it like a spark issue. I removed the plug and verified that I had spark. I poured some gas into the cylinder and put the plug back in. It started and ran for a short time and then died again. Now I was thinking fuel problem. My first thought was that one of the connections to the fuel pump that I had redone had come loose so I pulled the tank off and pulled the pump out. I only pulled the pump out far enough to see that the connections that I had made were still intact. I put the pump back in thinking it was fine and then turned my attention to the fuel injector. My thoughts were that it was possibly plugged, although I wasn't to solid on that thinking becasuse it wouldn't run at all. Most of the injector related issues that I have read about are poor running or bogging type issues. I pulled the injector out and did my best to clean it. I put it all back together and it still wouldn't start. At this point I didn't know where to look and was thinking my race the next day was out of the question. While sitting down at dinner I was thinking about the situation and decided that maybe I was having problems with the new pump. I made a decision that I was going to put my OEM pump back in. I went and pulled my tank back off and pulled the pump out. This time though as I looked at things more carefully in prep for changing the pump I saw my problems. Yes, multiple issues became obvious to me. Number one, since the ca-cycleworks pump does not have a barbed fitting of any kind (it is just a smooth outlet fitting) I was concerned about the fuel pump pushing the line off of that fitting when under pressure so I tightened the clamp very tight. The clamp ended up cutting through the fuel line so there was a big hole in the line causing an obvous pressure loss. Problem two was a kinked line right above the fuel filter from when I put the whole thing back in the tank. So on top of low pressure I had a flow restriction to boot. I put the OEM pump back on and with the barbed fitting on its outlet I felt better about having a lightly clamped connection. I also zip tied the fuel outlet line and the fuel return line toghether about an inch above the fuel filter to provide more rigidity in that area to help with the kinking problem. Instead of jamming the whole thing in from the bottom like I did last time, I remove the fuel regulator from the top of the tank and pulled the fuel pump into position by pulling from the top. The whole thing went together much easier from the top with the pump end already secured. I put everything back together and it fired up and ran perfectly with the OEM pump back in there. I learned some more stuff about my bike while going through this. That kinked line is something to be aware of as possibly causing bog or hesitation issues when making large throttle movements. Right after I installed the ca pump, I noticed an off idle hesitation that wasnt there before the pump change. I am pretty sure it was due to the kinked line as I don't think the hole in the fuel line had progressed to the failure point yet.

Anyway, I raced 80 miles Saturday and the berg ran perfect. I'll have to pay attention to the over heating fuel pump until I can find a better replacement or KTM/Husaberg drops the price on an OEM replacement.

Thanks for that great write-up. That's all great stuff to know, and I appreciate the tips.

Ok, second full day ride on mine yesterday. (2010 390). Since the tough restarting issues of last time I've wrapped the header and coated the tank with reflective heat tape. I also dumped the coolant and replaced it with water with water wetter.

It was cooler out yesterday - but - no restarting issues, except for just one at the end of the day. I could start it in gear this time too, which is great because with the rekluse neutral is very hard to find.

Now the bad news - a couple of hours in I was having bogging and hesitation issues. There were no common symptoms - it would do it under hard acceleration and also steady throttle. I pulled the plug, and did a visual inspection of it and the cap ( which I'll admit is a fairly useless test). Also checked battery terminals and ground. All good. Tried to ride around it. I thought maybe it was a fuel filter issue, as it seemed if I was using a lot of gas it would start to bog, but if i let off more often it could be fine. So I'd just coast into corners a bit. I rode like that for an hour or so, and then the problem just went away. I rode another three hours with a heavy throttle, and had no issues at all. So now I'm confused but happy. (pretty much how I go through life). But, toward the end of the day it started bogging and hesitating again. Not as bad as before, but still annoying. It was home time by then anyway.

So, I think I'll swap my plug, replace the filters, and maybe remove the injector for a visual inspection. Any other suggestions from the group?

(forgive the typos - I'm on my iPhone!)

BRN2RDE said:

Go to the submersable fuel line and you will not have the cutting problem with the clamps. The submersable stuff is expensive, but clearly better suited for in tank applications.

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I did use the submersible line from Gates. I still think the fuel softened the line, so between that and the fact that I tightened the clamp too tight I had problems. I think the type of clamp I used played a part also. I used a normal screw type clamp because I could not get one of the "FI" clamps tight enough in my opinion. The thing that bothered me when I was doing this and led me to over tighten was the fact that I could pull the line off the top of the pump with little effort so I was afraid the pump pressure would blow it off. Is there a fuel resistant glue that could be used to help secure the line? If there was then I would feel better about it.

Garrison said:

Thanks for that great write-up. That's all great stuff to know, and I appreciate the tips.

Ok, second full day ride on mine yesterday. (2010 390). Since the tough restarting issues of last time I've wrapped the header and coated the tank with reflective heat tape. I also dumped the coolant and replaced it with water with water wetter.

It was cooler out yesterday - but - no restarting issues, except for just one at the end of the day. I could start it in gear this time too, which is great because with the rekluse neutral is very hard to find.

Now the bad news - a couple of hours in I was having bogging and hesitation issues. There were no common symptoms - it would do it under hard acceleration and also steady throttle. I pulled the plug, and did a visual inspection of it and the cap ( which I'll admit is a fairly useless test). Also checked battery terminals and ground. All good. Tried to ride around it. I thought maybe it was a fuel filter issue, as it seemed if I was using a lot of gas it would start to bog, but if i let off more often it could be fine. So I'd just coast into corners a bit. I rode like that for an hour or so, and then the problem just went away. I rode another three hours with a heavy throttle, and had no issues at all. So now I'm confused but happy. (pretty much how I go through life). But, toward the end of the day it started bogging and hesitating again. Not as bad as before, but still annoying. It was home time by then anyway.

So, I think I'll swap my plug, replace the filters, and maybe remove the injector for a visual inspection. Any other suggestions from the group?

(forgive the typos - I'm on my iPhone!)

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Since you are going to have to remove the tank I would pull the pump and visually inspect the fuel line for signs of kinking. I remember reading about another guy that had a zip tie inside the tank that was too tight and as the fuel warmed up the fuel line would soften and that zip tie would crimp the fuel line resulting in symptoms like you describe. You may need to pull the pump out of the bottom, inspect the lines, then pull the regulator off of the top and inspect the lines from that end also. make sure to tighten the four screws with even pressure or else you will have gas run everywhere when you fill up like I did. Just another part of my adventure the other night.

FWIW,

One needs to be careful when re installing the fuel pump in the tank, as the screw hole wells for the regulator stick down into the tank like stalactites and can grab onto the fuel line causing it to bunch up and cause kinks.

I use a long thin screw driver to reach up inside and push the fuel line down so it pops over these indentations.

The other way as mentioned by another poster here was to pull the fuel pump assembly up from the top regulator to avoid the same thing.

Note: Berger and I were discussing this topic, and a couple of others regarding FI related problems and talked about making some stickies in the fuel section. After reading through this whole thread I went ahead made this a sticky since it covers many different anomaly's regarding fuel pumps, running conditions etc....

NOTE #2: Just so everyone knows, the Honda CRF's are also having similar problems with pump related issues, you just don't hear about them like you do here. And they basically have the same FI system that our bikes have.

Thanks for making this a sticky. This is an important subject that affects many of us.

Well looks like I may be a candidate for another fuel pump... :cuss:

I took my 2010 FE 450 out yesterday and rode on my land SLOW since I separated my shoulder a while ago and not feeling too confident. 1st and 2nd gear, temp about 80, grass and some mud, easy ST. After about 45 min I stopped and a couple minutes later restarted but just barely. Rode up a hill in 1st and stopped the bike at the top. Couldn't get it REstarted. No pump engagement sound, fuel boiling hard (Scary), no problems with cranking. I pushed it too to the hill but couldn't get it going fast enough to bump start it. I could still hear the fuel bubbling, how nice! Finally loosened up the cap slowly and extreme fuel pressure/vapours/WOW.

Waited for 5 min still no restart. Called my husband to come get me on the wheeler how embarassing! After 10 min it fired up as if nothing had happened. Can't have this. I often ride by myself, stop to clear out something on the trails etc. so ride/restart when hot is a requirement. Also when riding in a group you're always waiting for someone and shut down to keep the bike from overheating.

My Berg stats: 2010 FE 450 new in March 2011 The dealer is 8 hours away!!!!
8.5 hours, 160 miles
OEM fan kit (fan mostly off)
Mid pipe ceramic coated
Gas tank underside has reflective heat tape
Valves ok at 3 hrs
Wiring loom on engine protected
Stock exhaust silencer but Krisman KTM version (supposedly less restrictive)
Fuel cap ball is still in (kinda like that if I tip over) I going to pull the vent line check valve today
Gas 92 octane fresh 1/2 full

Thanks all!

I would agree. Sounds like the same behavior as mine. I have done a couple things to try and help. I am running 87 octane gas now and I put in a fan switch that comes on at a lower temp in hopes I could start pulling heat off sooner. I'm not sure what I did will prevent the issue, but it may help. Time will tell.

I'm also wondering if running these bikes low on fuel is contributing to the problem. If the fuel level gets low enough the pump won't be fully submerged in fuel and may overheat which could be the thing that causes a pump to start having this issue. Does that sound logical? I know I didn't have this problem until my pump came out of the housing after a bad fall and my pump ran while not submerged in fuel.

How do you get your fan to kick in earlier? I wondered about just making mine a manual switch. It rarely comes on when on singletrack.

I don't know about being exposed to air having much to do with the issue. Mine did it on my first ride not even half a tank in. I know it's been speculated that maybe the fuel tank goop had stressed the pumps. Or maybe there was just a crap batch in 2010.

Still waiting on my new filters and plugs. I'll swap those out and see how it goes. I have the Cycleworks pump sitting on the shelf too. Interestingly, mine wouldn't restart on the first ride, but it did re-fire all but once on the second. My issue was a stumbling and hesitation issue. Differences between first and second rides were that I tightened up a tight intake valve, wrapped the header and coated the tank. It was also cooler out - maybe around 70 degrees instead of 80. So I think I may have fixed one issue and inherited another!

MP - are you back to your stock pump? I seem to recall you switched back. How has it been working for you?

I bought another fan switch from partsgeek.com. They come in different on/off temperature ranges. The fan switch from a 1984 BMW 318i is an equivalent replacement. The part I got was the FAE W0133-1632716 in the 91 C on temperature. Many sources for that part.

I did switch back to my OEM pump because I didn't trust the hose to pump connection at the top of the ca-cycleworks pump. So far so good on the switch back to the OEM pump, but it hasn't really been hot enough yet to push it into the danger zone. I am confident it still has the "gets hot, won't pump" issue. At one point last summer I just shorted the fan switch connections to each other so the fan would run constantly. I still had the pump issue when it got hot enough.

Garrison said:

How do you get your fan to kick in earlier? I wondered about just making mine a manual switch. It rarely comes on when on singletrack.

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You can wire a switch in Parallel across the 2 pins on the Thermo Switch if you want to manually Switch the Fan on and off. The Thermo Switch is on the Right Hand side radiator, on the bottom.

If you want to save on wire, you can run 1 wire from the Switch to the Bike Frame (Earth) and the other wire to 1 of the pins on the Thermo Switch. To work out which pin on the Thermo Switch is the correct pin, try both until you find the 1 that works. You will not blow anything up if you chose the wrong pin, it will just not work.

My Thermo Switch stopped working sometime back and the fan was on continuously. Here are all the numbers and details on the old one I took out:
THERMOSWITCH 95-100 DG
78035045000
U04
36060
FAE
100 / 95

14mm x 1.5mm thread
The thread part is 11.4mm long

Davo.