Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
oh! it's a project idea alright! i want to try the mxcomposites alloy rod on the 400 which necessatates the 501 (taller) cases. i have a 97mm h/c piston sat here and the crown height is about 2-3mm too high for my std engine.
ok i could go to the BV head i have waiting here at the same time i suppose but i wanted to see what a genuine head change without any other change would do. as it isi may have to change to this h/c pidton and the head at the same time and pray that the compression is about the same for valid test results!
if you haven't read it scouser - the BV head has about 1.8mm extra head surface on it which would normally lower the compression low enough for me to loose a LOT of power. if this extra piston height from the 97mm piston works out - one will compensate the other. alas the next thing is that the piston will weigh way more!
so isolating one change at a time will be difficult.
i don't think i've mentioned it but i bought a h/c 92mm piston three months ago with a view to popping it in. all being well i can raise compression dramatically and see what i get from that as a valid back-to-back test!
already the bike is as quick as a 450 and the old 501 but lacks their torque in the middle.
regards
Taffy
ok i could go to the BV head i have waiting here at the same time i suppose but i wanted to see what a genuine head change without any other change would do. as it isi may have to change to this h/c pidton and the head at the same time and pray that the compression is about the same for valid test results!
if you haven't read it scouser - the BV head has about 1.8mm extra head surface on it which would normally lower the compression low enough for me to loose a LOT of power. if this extra piston height from the 97mm piston works out - one will compensate the other. alas the next thing is that the piston will weigh way more!
so isolating one change at a time will be difficult.
i don't think i've mentioned it but i bought a h/c 92mm piston three months ago with a view to popping it in. all being well i can raise compression dramatically and see what i get from that as a valid back-to-back test!
already the bike is as quick as a 450 and the old 501 but lacks their torque in the middle.
regards
Taffy
Taffy,
this sounds good. but how are you verifying your results? can you put each stage on a dyno? this will show your progression. without the dyno!; ..you are right ...you will not be sure which modificatrion has caused the real gain in power output. so isolating any increases will be a calculated guess!! I am thinking that you could be on to a good mid range tune. But with the reduced friction
that the smaller bore/stroke provides! so a cooler running engine.
¬
this sounds good. but how are you verifying your results? can you put each stage on a dyno? this will show your progression. without the dyno!; ..you are right ...you will not be sure which modificatrion has caused the real gain in power output. so isolating any increases will be a calculated guess!! I am thinking that you could be on to a good mid range tune. But with the reduced friction
that the smaller bore/stroke provides! so a cooler running engine.
¬
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
i can feel the smallest difference scouser. seriously. i do struggle on the MJ in sixth because i'm normally terrified and just hanging on for grim death!
i'm not an ***** mate. the bike was tested by TBM as having 28RWHP on knobblies. i had mine tested at 38HP and it kind of arrived at the dyno with that. i've since made several changes and i fully expect i'm on 40-42RWHP. i have several things left to do and expect to match lineaweaver's 46.
it'll be done properly mate. the idea is that the compression levels will be VERY similar even if that means lowering the compression for the first test and losing some squish. i know what to expect on losing some of that and any mod will show up as being well up or well down on the previous numbers.
i look forward to it but as i perhaps have said too often - i'm quite brassic presently!
(but i still managed to do the isle of man!) ahem!!!!
i'm happy that i have about the same HP as the old 501 and 450 and what are they said to be at the rear? 42-44?
regards
Taffy
i'm not an ***** mate. the bike was tested by TBM as having 28RWHP on knobblies. i had mine tested at 38HP and it kind of arrived at the dyno with that. i've since made several changes and i fully expect i'm on 40-42RWHP. i have several things left to do and expect to match lineaweaver's 46.
it'll be done properly mate. the idea is that the compression levels will be VERY similar even if that means lowering the compression for the first test and losing some squish. i know what to expect on losing some of that and any mod will show up as being well up or well down on the previous numbers.
i look forward to it but as i perhaps have said too often - i'm quite brassic presently!
(but i still managed to do the isle of man!) ahem!!!!
i'm happy that i have about the same HP as the old 501 and 450 and what are they said to be at the rear? 42-44?
regards
Taffy
Taffy' I have never accussed you of being an *****. You know I respect your technical knowledge! yeah...yeah..IOM is still a bitter pill to swallow!
With access to a dyno... sky the limit! you will be able to micro manage each and every power increase. We all know that a dyno will not lie. But when you ride/develop race bikes the results can feel better but only the dyno will give accurate data.
to prove a point...in'84 I was racing a "street class 250" { finished 4th in class} my machine was a stage tuned standard ...I beat 5 "special 250 class". the specials can do anything to frames and engines; 2stroke engines with boost ports and any number of transfer ports. their frames can be lightened or modded any way they want.
long story short ; they had over complicated their engines without a dyno to test their development.So had took a step back from the original standard engine!!!
I have heard figures of around 52 BHP on 501's. But I do not believe all I hear.
to get to the point...I am interested to hear how this development progresses and where the main power increases are found!
Best of luck with the progression/development.
With access to a dyno... sky the limit! you will be able to micro manage each and every power increase. We all know that a dyno will not lie. But when you ride/develop race bikes the results can feel better but only the dyno will give accurate data.
to prove a point...in'84 I was racing a "street class 250" { finished 4th in class} my machine was a stage tuned standard ...I beat 5 "special 250 class". the specials can do anything to frames and engines; 2stroke engines with boost ports and any number of transfer ports. their frames can be lightened or modded any way they want.
long story short ; they had over complicated their engines without a dyno to test their development.So had took a step back from the original standard engine!!!
I have heard figures of around 52 BHP on 501's. But I do not believe all I hear.
to get to the point...I am interested to hear how this development progresses and where the main power increases are found!
Best of luck with the progression/development.
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
the 501 can be tuned to 60BHP if done properly and i have managed to get to 38 without a dyno so i'm sure i can manage the last 8 without to much help!
as i've said, i can feel the difference.
all the tuning i have done is written out as either a seperate thread, it's in the doc or as part of "Taff's racing season 200_"
i think another difference is that i was road racing in 1981 and still tuning the same bike to perfection in 1994. better to take one bike to it's limit if you're going to learn something!
regards
Taffy
as i've said, i can feel the difference.
all the tuning i have done is written out as either a seperate thread, it's in the doc or as part of "Taff's racing season 200_"
i think another difference is that i was road racing in 1981 and still tuning the same bike to perfection in 1994. better to take one bike to it's limit if you're going to learn something!
regards
Taffy
Taffy you auld get! 1981? That was before my time! Was everything air-cooled then?
But seriously, I am interested in watching the development. And wish you all the best with it!
I fully understand why you need a few casings. 4-strokes have potential to make such a mess when they go "bang". I have seen a lot of destroyed 2-stroke casings when the pistons give up!
But seriously, I am interested in watching the development. And wish you all the best with it!
I fully understand why you need a few casings. 4-strokes have potential to make such a mess when they go "bang". I have seen a lot of destroyed 2-stroke casings when the pistons give up!
Taffy, if you have to achieve only an extra 2 - 3 mm, would a JBS cylinder head spacer work, because it would have to be a lot easier than the whole new cases option - that said, is the bore on the '02 400 still 100mm?
Is there a high risk of the engine going bang? cos that sounds like a bad joke to me.
Just a thought, good luck anyway.
Scouser - your'e young mate? I thought I'd be one of the youngest on the site!
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
ben ballard is JBS so we are thinking along the same linew......
the standard bore is 92 on the 400. 97 is a nothing size because the 501 had a 95mm bore and as you know the 450/470/550/650 all use the 100mm bore. the 97mm is an overbore size for the 450 knocking it out to i think 475 but with my shorter stroke of 67mm i get to 450. ame as the husaberg but different aspect ratio.
thing is, i want this 650 alloy rod and that means fitting an 11mm longer rod (123 goes to 134mm or even 135mm) so i need ben's packer on my cases or the 501 cases which we THINK are about 8mm up on mine.
if it doesn't make sense then read it three times. if it still doesn't make sense then i'm talking jibberish for the first time ever!
regards
Taffy
the standard bore is 92 on the 400. 97 is a nothing size because the 501 had a 95mm bore and as you know the 450/470/550/650 all use the 100mm bore. the 97mm is an overbore size for the 450 knocking it out to i think 475 but with my shorter stroke of 67mm i get to 450. ame as the husaberg but different aspect ratio.
thing is, i want this 650 alloy rod and that means fitting an 11mm longer rod (123 goes to 134mm or even 135mm) so i need ben's packer on my cases or the 501 cases which we THINK are about 8mm up on mine.
if it doesn't make sense then read it three times. if it still doesn't make sense then i'm talking jibberish for the first time ever!
regards
Taffy
Taffy,
I've got a '97 FE501E that I'm parting out - valve broke and took out the head, piston, cylinder and the 'foot' on the rocker arm broke and went thru the cam chain down into bottom end. The cases don't appear to be damaged but I haven't split them yet.
Brian
I've got a '97 FE501E that I'm parting out - valve broke and took out the head, piston, cylinder and the 'foot' on the rocker arm broke and went thru the cam chain down into bottom end. The cases don't appear to be damaged but I haven't split them yet.
Brian
Taffy - I'm sure you already seen this...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HUSABERG-ENGINE_W ... dZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HUSABERG-ENGINE_W ... dZViewItem
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
Taffy said:
It's a 'private bidder's auction", you can't see who's bidding, most of the times this is used when buying more 'private' stuff
, if it's used for normal things, there's probably something fishy :fish: going on.Probably has one of his buddies bidding on it to get the price up?
Hi Taffy. I just want to tell you that Mx Composite have shorter rods to 120,5 and 123,3 to fit the 450 and 550, Maybe one of them suit you better, http://www.mxcomposites.com/con_rod.php
Best Regards
Best Regards
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