Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
in britian i would imagine - as i'm not too sure - that someone orchestrats the riders towards some good gear. i know for instance that special swingarm pivot pins were needed and when made all the usual suspects got them. so there is an element of rivalry AND support amongst the teams.
it usually takes a top team to get to the problems first and then be generous in their support of the boys lower down the grid.
iun the UK DCR leads FROM THE FRONT. he's right on it, getting the best out of iddon etc. indeed just getting iddon back again!!!!
but you've got nothing like that in the states. i believe that you've finally met the complaint that lineaweaver had about these importers. nice guys that they undoubtably are - they can't swing a spanner.
call it pathetic (and i would) but if they only supported one leading team and made sure that there were the correct parts available down to what we in the UK would call 'the clubman' then all may be well in the garden.
when you race these things you wanna know how to make them handle, why they weave, why the carb splutters, where the power is to be MADE, infact you don't want to learn anything the hard way - you wanna be told by a generous man who has already done it.
it's a shame because our importer went broke last year over just the racing alone. there is no way DCR sells £50,000 in PROFIT more bikes because they SM yet he still does it. he deserves support from husaberg germany, husaberg, holland et al etc etc because they all derrive sales from how well the UK set-up goes.
to me, husaberg USA could bung them a few quid but the rule is "well they were racing anyway so no need to sweet 'n 'em up" but of course the husaberg UK team can't keep up and eventually HUSABERG MUST FALL BACK. THEY MUST IF THE BIG 5 GET INVOLVED.
so there you have it. you need a link to the UK teams for a brave american independant team who are backed by the importer and who make info freely available to all the "garagisti".
jedi? he keeps his money in his pocket. what he doesn't know about doesn't cost him.
in the UK we had a team called sports motorcycles who got hailwood out of retirement and they were brilliant. but they were private. the importer knew nothing of racing and wouldn't even support him. it became very heated. the SMR team were then asked to give away all their secrets to the importers little team that wasn't even a proper effort and came at the back.
fact is, it takes years of racing like lineaweaver and myself to get where we do. the importers want all the info for free.
if i was jedi, i'd go over to see a round in the UK, make contact with DCR, make him a generous offer to have iddon and team partner come over and at the same time help THEIR race team budget with back up info and parts.
i'd then back a veteran private USA team. i'd then try and glean the info and start to keep the private team tied in as well as offering the privateers the back up if they would buy a new machine at a discount (accredited national entrants only need apply).
it's a long process and if it sounds convoluted, well then i'm sorry but that's the truth! if you've missed the beginning of the sport you've gotta go through all the hard yards.
and all along husaberg sell less machines. so less is expected back so a wise man always invests enough to show a retuyrn. for husaberg that means less again doesn't it!
from what i can see, the inporters really don't have a clue about how to go about it. they sponsored a froggie from canada in 2004 at MX and it was a bloody mess. whilst lineaweaver will whinge in his old age that he deserves an armchair and a jaccuzi to do the job properly, there are also teams who sit on their fannies and just take the money. hard earnt money and it just starts to look like a big freebie/party.
if you follow the series real close and visit every round, there are riders with no money doing really well when they shouldn't. it's up to the importers to spot them. infact, i wouldn't even leave that to the importers!!!!! i'd ask someone else who knew....
regards
Taffy
it usually takes a top team to get to the problems first and then be generous in their support of the boys lower down the grid.
iun the UK DCR leads FROM THE FRONT. he's right on it, getting the best out of iddon etc. indeed just getting iddon back again!!!!
but you've got nothing like that in the states. i believe that you've finally met the complaint that lineaweaver had about these importers. nice guys that they undoubtably are - they can't swing a spanner.
call it pathetic (and i would) but if they only supported one leading team and made sure that there were the correct parts available down to what we in the UK would call 'the clubman' then all may be well in the garden.
when you race these things you wanna know how to make them handle, why they weave, why the carb splutters, where the power is to be MADE, infact you don't want to learn anything the hard way - you wanna be told by a generous man who has already done it.
it's a shame because our importer went broke last year over just the racing alone. there is no way DCR sells £50,000 in PROFIT more bikes because they SM yet he still does it. he deserves support from husaberg germany, husaberg, holland et al etc etc because they all derrive sales from how well the UK set-up goes.
to me, husaberg USA could bung them a few quid but the rule is "well they were racing anyway so no need to sweet 'n 'em up" but of course the husaberg UK team can't keep up and eventually HUSABERG MUST FALL BACK. THEY MUST IF THE BIG 5 GET INVOLVED.
so there you have it. you need a link to the UK teams for a brave american independant team who are backed by the importer and who make info freely available to all the "garagisti".
jedi? he keeps his money in his pocket. what he doesn't know about doesn't cost him.
in the UK we had a team called sports motorcycles who got hailwood out of retirement and they were brilliant. but they were private. the importer knew nothing of racing and wouldn't even support him. it became very heated. the SMR team were then asked to give away all their secrets to the importers little team that wasn't even a proper effort and came at the back.
fact is, it takes years of racing like lineaweaver and myself to get where we do. the importers want all the info for free.
if i was jedi, i'd go over to see a round in the UK, make contact with DCR, make him a generous offer to have iddon and team partner come over and at the same time help THEIR race team budget with back up info and parts.
i'd then back a veteran private USA team. i'd then try and glean the info and start to keep the private team tied in as well as offering the privateers the back up if they would buy a new machine at a discount (accredited national entrants only need apply).
it's a long process and if it sounds convoluted, well then i'm sorry but that's the truth! if you've missed the beginning of the sport you've gotta go through all the hard yards.
and all along husaberg sell less machines. so less is expected back so a wise man always invests enough to show a retuyrn. for husaberg that means less again doesn't it!
from what i can see, the inporters really don't have a clue about how to go about it. they sponsored a froggie from canada in 2004 at MX and it was a bloody mess. whilst lineaweaver will whinge in his old age that he deserves an armchair and a jaccuzi to do the job properly, there are also teams who sit on their fannies and just take the money. hard earnt money and it just starts to look like a big freebie/party.
if you follow the series real close and visit every round, there are riders with no money doing really well when they shouldn't. it's up to the importers to spot them. infact, i wouldn't even leave that to the importers!!!!! i'd ask someone else who knew....
regards
Taffy
Joined Mar 2005
514 Posts | 6+
Sunset desert/ Murray River. S.A/Victoria Australi
Some interesting points Taff,
I've just finished reading a Supermoto article in the latest Australasian Dirt Bike magazine, where they feature "all the major players" machines.
Honda, Husqvarna, KTM, Yamaha and Aprillia all get a mention but no sign of Husaberg at all.
Considering Husaberg were frontrunners a year or 2 ago with Avard on his 650, suddenly they have no major media exposure anymore ??
Now I wonder why Husaberg sales in Australia are going backwards ??
I've just finished reading a Supermoto article in the latest Australasian Dirt Bike magazine, where they feature "all the major players" machines.
Honda, Husqvarna, KTM, Yamaha and Aprillia all get a mention but no sign of Husaberg at all.
Considering Husaberg were frontrunners a year or 2 ago with Avard on his 650, suddenly they have no major media exposure anymore ??
Now I wonder why Husaberg sales in Australia are going backwards ??
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
ausberg
i would think that the budget to go racing in the intervening two seasons may have gone up 50%. the bikes have less and less to do with the standard production bikes and are less and less relevant to the importer.
if you're the 7th biggest company, explain how you expect to win?
it's not a new phenomina. the brits and the eyeties agreed to race within their economic budgets, year upon year, then people started winning but getting out after three seasons and so forth. the germans especially, arrived, kicked arse, and left. that way the metallurgy technology, the designers skills, everything were utilised for three years, modern frame geometry; caught up, equalled, surpassed. stopped racing.
the japs have at times had to do the same thing. they've learnt to put just enough money in and to always stay there. it now costs too much to restart having stopped!
but let me assure you that honda were NOT disappointed to lose valentino. they just never expected him to be that good. even the japs know it's not good to win EVERY year.
history is also littered with those that dominated and then stopped as it was having an adverse affect on them. it's not told like that but it's true. "we've done everything we came to do...." blah, blah!!!!
BTW, an aussie will have to do better than 'some interesting points"!!!!
regards
Taffy
i would think that the budget to go racing in the intervening two seasons may have gone up 50%. the bikes have less and less to do with the standard production bikes and are less and less relevant to the importer.
if you're the 7th biggest company, explain how you expect to win?
it's not a new phenomina. the brits and the eyeties agreed to race within their economic budgets, year upon year, then people started winning but getting out after three seasons and so forth. the germans especially, arrived, kicked arse, and left. that way the metallurgy technology, the designers skills, everything were utilised for three years, modern frame geometry; caught up, equalled, surpassed. stopped racing.
the japs have at times had to do the same thing. they've learnt to put just enough money in and to always stay there. it now costs too much to restart having stopped!
but let me assure you that honda were NOT disappointed to lose valentino. they just never expected him to be that good. even the japs know it's not good to win EVERY year.
history is also littered with those that dominated and then stopped as it was having an adverse affect on them. it's not told like that but it's true. "we've done everything we came to do...." blah, blah!!!!
BTW, an aussie will have to do better than 'some interesting points"!!!!
regards
Taffy
at the moment the uk supermoto championship is very weird we have 2 rival series lots of bickering and crap
the racing is spot on but the associated crap is ruining it
spectator attendance is very low with hardly any publicity
last round had around 100 paying customers
so who can afford to develop the 450 enough to compete with very little sponsorship money coming in for the above reasons
last year sam warren had a very copetative 450 and did well on it
but unlike everywhere else the open class is still the premier class
so most people with any money to spend go to this class
the honda and ktm are more popular 450s over here easier to make competative
jon
the racing is spot on but the associated crap is ruining it
spectator attendance is very low with hardly any publicity
last round had around 100 paying customers
so who can afford to develop the 450 enough to compete with very little sponsorship money coming in for the above reasons
last year sam warren had a very copetative 450 and did well on it
but unlike everywhere else the open class is still the premier class
so most people with any money to spend go to this class
the honda and ktm are more popular 450s over here easier to make competative
jon
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
jon
i've wanted to go and watch some rounds for the last three seasons and i swear i can't even find the dates!!!!
is there something in east anglia soon? wildtracks, snetterton, an old airfield perhaps?
who are the two consortiums and how did it get to this? is one of them winning?
sam rode for SR offroad last season or was that DCR?
regards
Taffy
i've wanted to go and watch some rounds for the last three seasons and i swear i can't even find the dates!!!!
is there something in east anglia soon? wildtracks, snetterton, an old airfield perhaps?
who are the two consortiums and how did it get to this? is one of them winning?
sam rode for SR offroad last season or was that DCR?
regards
Taffy
Joined Jun 2001
1K Posts | 3+
Berkshire, England
And here we open up the political bollocks of what has been supermoto for pretty much as long as it has been around :roll:
Two competing groups really is nothing new, there have been competing groups for donkeys, all claiming to be the british or national championships etc. It's just that the competing groups change their names and affiliations every year or so to confuse matters even more!
At present you have MotoGB, essentially Southern Supermoto and NORA Sport combining to create a southern and national championship. NORA are the organisers for the people, down to earth and have supported the sport from year dot and will probably continue to do so
ACU/AMCA is the other one and there have been so many trying to pick up the mantle of the ACU "British" championships and they only ever last a season or two. Actually the ACU official stuff has, apart from when BEMSEE ran the series, been a complete load of bollocks essentially run by people that have more interest in their egos than developing long term a professional and well supported championships. The ACU really don't help matters either.
I won't go more into the politics as it's a bit of a waste of time but this stuff, bitching and infighting has been going on for around a decade, so it isn't anything new at all, just new faces....
If you want to look at dates & venues:
MotoGB
As for the other one, try the AMCA if you can find a list of dates and venues, that is.
As for answering the question about the 450 it needs a lot of fettling to compete and there are too many bikes up to the job already, why waste your money. It simply isn't up to the job.
The other thing you have to understand about the sport is that it has always been about big thumpers and in Europe the big thumpers still rule - that is why they're the premier class (always will be).
The 450 class only came about because the japs started building them and that is why they're the class in the US - money and influence, oh, and big gurls blouses running the show :wink:
Simon
Two competing groups really is nothing new, there have been competing groups for donkeys, all claiming to be the british or national championships etc. It's just that the competing groups change their names and affiliations every year or so to confuse matters even more!
At present you have MotoGB, essentially Southern Supermoto and NORA Sport combining to create a southern and national championship. NORA are the organisers for the people, down to earth and have supported the sport from year dot and will probably continue to do so
ACU/AMCA is the other one and there have been so many trying to pick up the mantle of the ACU "British" championships and they only ever last a season or two. Actually the ACU official stuff has, apart from when BEMSEE ran the series, been a complete load of bollocks essentially run by people that have more interest in their egos than developing long term a professional and well supported championships. The ACU really don't help matters either.
I won't go more into the politics as it's a bit of a waste of time but this stuff, bitching and infighting has been going on for around a decade, so it isn't anything new at all, just new faces....
If you want to look at dates & venues:
MotoGB
As for the other one, try the AMCA if you can find a list of dates and venues, that is.
As for answering the question about the 450 it needs a lot of fettling to compete and there are too many bikes up to the job already, why waste your money. It simply isn't up to the job.
The other thing you have to understand about the sport is that it has always been about big thumpers and in Europe the big thumpers still rule - that is why they're the premier class (always will be).
The 450 class only came about because the japs started building them and that is why they're the class in the US - money and influence, oh, and big gurls blouses running the show :wink:
Simon
taffy
check simons links i think motogb are at snetterton in september
yeah sam rides for sr theyve got aprillas this year so has christian he was on a trackday with us a few weeks ago i thought i was going alright he came past about 60 mph faster 8O
i dont race but sometimes help out a lad who does and its a shame the quality of racing with no-one watching
check simons links i think motogb are at snetterton in september
yeah sam rides for sr theyve got aprillas this year so has christian he was on a trackday with us a few weeks ago i thought i was going alright he came past about 60 mph faster 8O
i dont race but sometimes help out a lad who does and its a shame the quality of racing with no-one watching
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
thanks for the diary of dates.
is it best to do a southern centre or a motogb?
anon.
i don't think it's too weak simon. i think it's a coupla horsepower down due to being a SOHC but everything else in that engine spells racing. it's still a lightweight bike.
you know better than me that you can't tune these things as an individual. you need the bits there being developed by others. you just wanna race it!
and that's the problem. who makes the special bits...
regards
Taffy
is it best to do a southern centre or a motogb?
anon.
i don't think it's too weak simon. i think it's a coupla horsepower down due to being a SOHC but everything else in that engine spells racing. it's still a lightweight bike.
you know better than me that you can't tune these things as an individual. you need the bits there being developed by others. you just wanna race it!
and that's the problem. who makes the special bits...
regards
Taffy
Joined Jun 2001
1K Posts | 3+
Berkshire, England
Taffy said:
What are you thinking of doing - racing or watching? If racing I'd go for southern if watching probably MotoGB
Taffy said:
When I rode a 450 I was very surprised by how soft it was - great for trails - but but then that's my opinion.
I know the problem of self tuning and racing at the same time very well, yes very well indeed :roll:
Taffy said:
Is that a question?
The special bits are certainly out there but they're not advertised and a lot of the stuff is made just to order. In my experience it seems the supermono community are the ones to talk to but I also know someone who does a little work in the BSB paddock that knows a few people too :wink:
The interesting thing I've learnt here is that you need to know what to ask for....
Simon
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