4.6 and 8.8 out of balance?

i can never remember your name mate? what is it again?

did you have a look at 'the doc' and try 'k-talk'? just asking as asking this lot is like pissing in the wind most of the time. someone once changed a plug.... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

k-talk spring pin it this is a link to k-talk's 'pin it' on springs.

i weigh 200 and ride a 400 that has no starter or lectrix so i guess there may be about the same weight as i have a rearlight and hollow headlight plus shiploads o lectric cablin.

now i think you'll find the accepted rate on the front is .46 and on the rear it's the spring i'm running right now which is the 85/111 progressive. it's the 'heaviest' they do. the first code (85) is the important bit. however i think it's too light and i can't get the boys on k-talk to chat about it.

however, in a straight rate you'll find that it's more like a 92 or 94 or 96 or 98. take your pick. it's a bloody mess.

i ran a standard 71/90 (PDS1), then 76/95 (PDS7), then 81/99 (PDS8) and finally the 85/111 (PDS4). my preload is still 6-8mm after 4 springs!!!! couldn't get any decent advice here at all on spring rates.

each one of those three has improved the bike. i'm now forced to at least have a crack at a straight rate. they'll tell me that my rear shock is set for a progressive but i think it's set by a prick like most of the tuners.

i have a 9.5 straight rate that has arrived yesterday. it's from a suspension shop and not a WP OEM part. so i will check it out. the PDS8 is for sale. cost me £70 ($120) just in march and stayed on for 1 month.

the trouble is - this new 9.5 spring is only available in orange.....

god help me!

regards

taffy

i would check that front several times due to stiction. to be honest i got more sag from the 4.8s than i did from the 4.4s!!! work that out!

do you try a zip tie around the leg?
do you check for bottoming and how much travel you use?

if you can't get to use the last 50mm easily then drill your bottoming cones out.

try and do your sag figures really well and clickers from closed. don't forget your HSC on the rear (the nut) and put it up.

that 8.0 is VERY light sure it'sn 8.0?
sure that they're .46s front?

just think we ought to start out about this the right way.

regards

Taffy

Mark, I 'm running an 8.8 rear with 4.8 front springs and I don't think it is too stiff. Everybody has their own ideas on suspension so take mine with a grain of salt. I weigh 175lbs, riding an 06 450. Personally I like my bikes to ride high in the stroke, this keeps the suspension from "wallowing" and feeling harsh (if your forks are deep in their stroke then it will feel harsh). Whereas stiffer springs keep it up in the stroke letting the springs work and allows me to back off the compression giving me the plushness without the wallowing, you have to remmeber to add rebound damping, stiffer springs will make it rebound to fast, and always adjust the rebound before setting the compression. The best way is to experiment, I was fortunate, a friend already had the 8.8 so I got to try before buy!

My new arrangement on my '05 is a Factory Connection 9.0/11.5 progressive with .46 in front. The old combo was an 8.8 straight rate with the .46's.

I think that combo is fine as far as balance, my problem is I just could not come to terms with the straight rate rear's tendency to blow through the travel on big hits.

Yes the FC progressive is orange and I really don't care. The spring is set up with only a few turns of preload and the static and race sag numbers are spot on for my weight of 220 pounds. The progressive spring really helps control the action on the big hits, and the ride is still good on the small stuff too.

I do think I will move up to .48's in the front now.

I'm running an 8.8 with .48 up front. It felt more balanced with .46 but the .48 just felt better.My fork tubes are 13mm up in the triples and my sag is at 105mm I think. I'm done messin with it for now but a progressive is probably in the cards to eliminate the blow through the stroke on the large hits. But who knows, i'm content for now.

EDIT: 05 fe450 205ish lbs

i'm sure you lads have hearde of the needle that stops the blow through on the rear straight rate. RT do them. so next time your shocks are down....

let me know your sag numbers on the rear you two please.

also sentinal, have you tried different sags back to back because you seem to have a heavy sag on the rear and THEN you slipped the forks up and dropped the front as well?

i find it's all about the slow turning ability.

regards

taffy

Taffy, I'm running 28mm static sag on the fork, with 10mm over the triple clamp, and 100mm shock sag. To me this feels balanced, front to back, also for stability and turning, but there again that's me. When you say RT are talking about race tech?

Taffy said:

i'm sure you lads have hearde of the needle that stops the blow through on the rear straight rate. RT do them. so next time your shocks are down....

let me know your sag numbers on the rear you two please.

also sentinal, have you tried different sags back to back because you seem to have a heavy sag on the rear and THEN you slipped the forks up and dropped the front as well?

i find it's all about the slow turning ability.

regards

taffy

Click to expand...

Taffy,
I am aware of the telescoping needle that RT sells. I also have seen a few pictures of the damage they do when they fail. Guess that has made me sorta nervous. Anyway, I am happy right now with my set up:

Rear sag w/ FC 9/11.5: Static sag is 35mm, race sag is 105. Spring is preloaded 4 or 5 mm or so. I run the stock offset (22mm) clamps flush with the top triple clamp. Bike turns sharp, with neutral steering--no over/under steer.

As an aside, the FC spring is 5mm or so shorter than the stock spring. It does not make a difference, but when glancing at the spring installed on the shock it looks as though I have spring really preloaded, when in reality more threads are showing because the spring is shorter.

john

those sag nubers sound excellent and the forks are back where god intended them! very good. i would still try 100 and then 95 sag and see if it handles better.

bergy
the RT needle is a design by terry hay from australia. he makes them out of a high grade steel. he then authorised RT to make them under his license in the states, alas they've been known to frag....

they are however, the anser for the SR springs it would seem.

regards

Taffy

Taffy said:

john

those sag nubers sound excellent and the forks are back where god intended them! very good. i would still try 100 and then 95 sag and see if it handles better.

bergy
the RT needle is a design by terry hay from australia. he makes them out of a high grade steel. he then authorised RT to make them under his license in the states, alas they've been known to frag....

they are however, the anser for the SR springs it would seem.

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

Interesting that you brought up the lower sag suggestion. The first two initial test with the FC spring were at lower sag numbers, as I was expecting the new spring to "bed" in a little bit. I was running around 25mm static and 92mm race. The bike really handled sharp, but it was just a little more unforgiving as far as bump compliance. Not bad really, and I would run those settings if I needed it to turn better, which I don't.

Incidentally, after about 10 hours of riding, the sag numbers did not change at all with the new spring, and I ended up backing the pre load spring off three turns to get to my current number.

The Husaberg does not seem to be as sensitive to rear sag settings as it's PDS equipped KTM cousin. Of course, the rage over at the KTM site is to fit super heavy springs and then run a ton of static and race sag with very little pre load. I personally can't stand that set up, but suspension set up is a pretty personal thing, I guess.

i do all my testing back to back. i wouldn't have it any other way. the hardest part with suspension is the tracks - it's the fact that i'm litera;lly stuck in the woods one sunday and then bomboing around the outside of a farmers field the next. so the term B2B is loosely quoted i'm afraid!

for my year of berg i need 85-100 race sag and i run 102 at present. i will normally be around 95 and over. i change the steering nowadays by dropping the forks through or up rather than compromise the rear shock.

i think you've got to spend longer john trying a new setting. 95-100 might be better if the clickers go with the change. on it's own it's not going to work i don't think.

i'm one of those that's gone to heavy springs (don't know about superheavy though, seems a little harsh :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: ).

i know for an absolute fact that the 48s upfront make me quicker. they're not better or plusher but i am quicker.

i had heard of this 9.0/11.5 and that's higher than my 8.5/11.1 OEM WP unit.

anyway, i have a SR to try and so soon we'll perhaps see.

right now i'm gatting clattered on k-talk for going to 48s with 1.5mm float whilst they think i should have gone 46s with around 1.0mm float. can't say, the springs are sold but i am on 1.25mm float now and can always borrow a pair for a one off test.

wasn't it you i sold the fork springs too?

can't remember!!!!

regards

Taffy

The heavy spring comment was directed at the KTM suspension. My Husaberg is valved lighter and the heavier springs/light valving really compliment each other. Though, at 220 pounds I think I pretty much have the correct springs, as borne out by my sag numbers.

I'll spend some more time testing, but I'm real close now. I really want to throw some 48's in up front.

I never bought any springs from you. I offered to send you a PDS2 back a few months ago when you were going through all the testing on your bike. I have accumulated so many WP rear springs its not even funny.

Didn't you get a late model frame? Are you going to build that one up soon?

Taffy I did try different sags. From 95 to 110. I had first moved the forks and then played with the sag. I'm running the 105mm sag for better compliance over rough terrain. Also the forks are that low because when I closed up the float it just didn't want to settle in to corners quick enough. Now the front seems to have dirt magnets installed, and is still quite stable at speed. No complaints really.

I recently changed the valving again but haven't played with it much. I am planning on moving the tubes farther down in the the clamps (11mm-ish exposed) to let the rear hook up a little better as the bike will oversteer a bit too much on throttle. All in good time.

The RT needle is something I have considered and may get around to doing over winter.

Hil

Johnf3 said:

The heavy spring comment was directed at the KTM suspension. My Husaberg is valved lighter and the heavier springs/light valving really compliment each other. Though, at 220 pounds I think I pretty much have the correct springs, as borne out by my sag numbers.

I'll spend some more time testing, but I'm real close now. I really want to throw some 48's in up front.

I never bought any springs from you. I offered to send you a PDS2 back a few months ago when you were going through all the testing on your bike. I have accumulated so many WP rear springs its not even funny.

Didn't you get a late model frame? Are you going to build that one up soon?

Click to expand...

aah yes john, i knew you came into the equation somewhere! stick all those springs on UHE or ebay and turn them into cash mate.

i walked in 10 minutes ago and there on my porch sits a nice looking frame complete with inner rear mudguard as i brutalised the old one to get my auxillary tank in, pluys new footrests (because i used a 5 pound hammer to shove the pivot pin and missed several times :lol: :lol: :lol: , and the husey TCs coz i sold the old ones THEN realised i needed to start again with 22mm offset.

as i have 22s and 14s i suppose i'll have to compliment them by getting a set of 17 or 18s off a katoom for testing.

you'll love the 48s john. probably one 24 out of the BV stack just for the tougher springs and i would put some more HS rebound shims in - 10, 11, 12.

now you BOTH should have got some 14s whilst they were DIRT cheap! now they're becoming flavour of the month on ktalk....

17's or 18s will really help the flic-flacs.

regards

Taffy

now you BOTH should have got some 14s whilst they were DIRT cheap! now they're becoming flavour of the month on ktalk....

17's or 18s will really help the flic-flacs.

regards

Taffy[/quote]
Yeah, I've played around with the different offset clamps on my KTM. On my Husaberg, I don't need to fix what's not broken. The bike steers near perfectly. One thing I don't like about less offset is that the bike takes more effort to inititate a turn. The front sticks better, but it's a compromise.

IF I ever get around to playing with offset on the 'Berg, I'll more than likely go with the adjustable axle that Recluse sells. It's eccentric, which allows different offsets by rotating the axle. I think it allows adjustment of + or - 4 degrees. It was invented by a guy on KTMtalk. You can change offsets in minutes, and it's less than a set of new triples.

but john.. you're not changing the degrees? you're changing the offset and therefore the trail. it's plus or minus 2mm making a total of 4mm i last heard.

you're right though, "husqy 510" from ktalk designed it.

i simply solve one problem and then move onto the next. i'll go back if i think they're interrelated.

regards

Taffy

Taffy said:

but john.. you're not changing the degrees? you're changing the offset and therefore the trail. it's plus or minus 2mm making a total of 4mm i last heard.

you're right though, "husqy 510" from ktalk designed it.

i simply solve one problem and then move onto the next. i'll go back if i think they're interrelated.

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

Youi're absolutely right. "Degrees" was a wrong word choice. Of course the measurement in mm.

the rekluse item won't fit my small axle pin model :cry: :cry:

but i can always buy used and then sell what i don't want on ebay. that way i'll be buying 1 and selling 2 whatever happens.

regards

Taffy