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2009 FE 450 won't start

B

bayside08

Joined Apr 2018
20 Posts | 0+
Florida
I bought this bike from a friend. It ran when I bought it then after changing the oil it ran for about a minute, shut off and has not started since.

So far I have:
  • Swapped the entire fuel system from a running 2010 FE450
    • tank
    • fuel pump/filter
    • fuel rail
    • injector
  • Fresh oil change
  • Clean air filter
  • New battery @ +12V
  • New plug gapped to spec
  • Checked valve clearance
  • Increased/Decreased idle
  • Set TPS to .64
  • Swapped ECU
  • Swapped plug
  • Checked and cleaned coil wire
  • Jumped diag pins to read codes - none present
  • Checked fuses
  • Tried starting fluid

I pulled the plug and it looks brand new and a little wet.
This makes me think the fuel system was/is not the issue.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated

Here is an album of some of my testing
https://imgur.com/a/BF9XaFc
https://youtu.be/46y6K2s65yg
https://youtu.be/Vb9MUZeZwqY
 
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I would immediately suspect the fuel system when it comes to no start/stalling issues with these bikes. I would also go through the wiring harness to check for damaged wires/oxidized connector pins.
 
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NoClassic said:
I would immediately suspect the fuel system when it comes to no start/stalling issues with these bikes. I would also go through the wiring harness to check for damaged wires/oxidized connector pins.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response NoClassic. I suspected the fuel system as well, however I have swapped over a new tank, injector, and everything in between. When I look down the TB I can see fuel is spraying fine as well as puling the spark plug shows it is wet and getting fuel.

I also tried starting fluid but it would not start, which leads me to believe it is not fuel related.

The reason I posted in the electrical section is because it seems I've eliminated the fuel system, but maybe I'm missing something. I sanded down the ground connections and verified i have good connections.

Are there any connections/sensors you would recommend to check that I have missed? I will be measuring the resistance of the pulse generator this evening.
 
Thanks! I just reached out to a friend of mine and he said their shop has an XC1. I had never heard of that tool before. I really wish they were readily available to the public
 
I know they were at one time available for purchase and may still be. I think the list price is near 3K though.
 
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What would cause my battery to sound like its dying after I crank it a couple times?

Torque limiter?

 
The battery is weak and not maintaining high enough terminal voltage during cranking, the ECU senses the low voltage and then stops firing the plug.

Replace the battery.
 
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PABiker said:
The battery is weak and not maintaining high enough terminal voltage during cranking, the ECU senses the low voltage and then stops firing the plug.

Replace the battery.
Click to expand...

I'll give that a try. When I bought this bike, changing the battery was the first thing I did. I have also tried cranking the bike hooked up to my truck battery hopping the increased CCA would help
 
So I have swapped the battery for a new one and it no longer drops below 10V when cranking, but still no start.

I was going to take it to the only KTM shop around, but they do not have the software on their XC1 for a husaberg, only KTMs. I'm assuming since the wiring is different on the berg than it's KTM sibling that it may not work. Also, the tech said the XC1 won't provide much info if the bike won't start.

He said he could diagnose it but they ask for a guarantee of up to two hours @ $100/hr with no guarantee they can diagnose it. So I'm still holding off trying to figure this out with the help of you berg wizards before I throw $200 into the wind
 
Before you start throwing money around, I'll give you a simple and basic checklist to diagnose the problem.

First throw away any crazy and paranormal ideas about the issue.

1) Is there any spark?
2) Do you have spark on the right moment?
3) Is there fuel?
4) Does the injector squirt if you crank the engine. If it doesn't squirt or instead it pisses, then there is your problem.
5) Is there enough compression?
6) Is the valve timing correct?

If you have checked everything on the list above, then the engine fires. If it still doesnt, then your bike can be declared paranormal. Mulder and Scully should investigate it.

and some more ideas:

- If the throttle position sensor plug is loose, then there will be no firing. The tach should give you a fault code
- Try running or pulling the bike with a car to give engine moore starting speed. Even if the engine has for example 6 bars of compression, it should fire.
- If the engine has low compression, starting fluid might not help.
 
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V6ll said:
Before you start throwing money around, I'll give you a simple and basic checklist to diagnose the problem.

First throw away any crazy and paranormal ideas about the issue.

1) Is there any spark?
2) Do you have spark on the right moment?
3) Is there fuel?
4) Does the injector squirt if you crank the engine. If it doesn't squirt or instead it pisses, then there is your problem.
5) Is there enough compression?
6) Is the valve timing correct?

If you have checked everything on the list above, then the engine fires. If it still doesnt, then your bike can be declared paranormal. Mulder and Scully should investigate it.

and some more ideas:

- If the throttle position sensor plug is loose, then there will be no firing. The tach should give you a fault code
- Try running or pulling the bike with a car to give engine moore starting speed. Even if the engine has for example 6 bars of compression, it should fire.
- If the engine has low compression, starting fluid might not help.
Click to expand...

1) Yeah I'm getting spark
2) I'm actually not sure how to test if I have spark on the right moment.
3) I have fuel. Verified looking down the TB as well as pulling the plug and it is wet
4) Injector atomizes properly
5) Yeah compression is good
6) Valve timing appears fine. Everything lines up and all valve clearance is in check
 
In addition to the checklist:
- is the spark strong enough, like it can bridge at least 7mm other wise it won’t ignite
- check for air leaks in the intake like lose injector house or cracks in rubber
- valve timing, chain tension right ? Do valves open and close on the correct moments? One tooth slip on your chain can make your bike not start
 
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Ook Peter said:
In addition to the checklist:
- is the spark strong enough, like it can bridge at least 7mm other wise it won’t ignite
- check for air leaks in the intake like lose injector house or cracks in rubber
- valve timing, chain tension right ? Do valves open and close on the correct moments? One tooth slip on your chain can make your bike not start
Click to expand...

I checked for air leaks and verified valve timing.

I'm thinking it's something spark related which is why I posted in the Electrical forum.

I'm an absolute knob when it comes to electrical work, so if anyone can point me in the right direction for testing, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Although spark appears stronger on mine than my buddy's '10 FE, I'm suspecting it may not be firing at the right time or is not truly as strong as it appears. Do you know of a way to test the coil?
 
bayside08 said:
...
Although spark appears stronger on mine than my buddy's '10 FE, I'm suspecting it may not be firing at the right time or is not truly as strong as it appears. Do you know of a way to test the coil?
Click to expand...
Of you have a multi meter, find the resistance values for the ignition coil normaly less than 10 ohms on controller side and more than 5000 ohms on spark plug side. A fast and practical way is using an old spark plug and enlarging the spark gap, it should at least give a spark when the distance is 7 mm.
Timing needs the sensor positionec correctly, would need to check the workshop manual for that. I haven’t got it at hand since I am out for work.
 
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Ook Peter said:
Of you have a multi meter, find the resistance values for the ignition coil normaly less than 10 ohms on controller side and more than 5000 ohms on spark plug side. A fast and practical way is using an old spark plug and enlarging the spark gap, it should at least give a spark when the distance is 7 mm.
Timing needs the sensor positionec correctly, would need to check the workshop manual for that. I haven’t got it at hand since I am out for work.
Click to expand...

Thanks Peter! Pardon my ignorance, but when measuring at the spark plug side, do I just probe inside the coil where the spark plug connects to? And then for measuring on the controller side, I would just measure the black box under the frame?
 
bayside08 said:
Thanks Peter! Pardon my ignorance, but when measuring at the spark plug side, do I just probe inside the coil where the spark plug connects to? And then for measuring on the controller side, I would just measure the black box under the frame?
Click to expand...
Nope, you’re measuring the coils’ resistance that is normally between where the spark plug connects and the “-“ of the battery or the metal of the engine. I just checked my 390 and it reads something like 30.000 ohms (30kohms).
You can also enlarge the gap of the spark plug to 1cm which corresponds to the normal condition in the engine to check it. Strong ignition can bridge up to 1,5cm.
But somehow this sounds more like faulty timing to me.
You really only changed oil for the right oil in the right amount? And around 1l oil came out?
 
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