- Joined
- Oct 2, 2002
- Messages
- 3,118
- Location
- Sunland, CA
Read the first page of this thread. The posts made by bikebarnbeckman are what you are looking for. He is the guy I bought my bike from and shared this info with me after he attended the tech class.
The 5 min number came from another HBG tech that I talked to, and I suggested that b/c some folks don't have fans.
Here's some more info. I watched a KTM dealer dial in a 690 which has basically the same injection system. He had his laptop hooked up to the bike and I could see all the parameters the ECU was seeing rpm, coolant temp, air temp etc.....
During the first 5 minutes the ECU is figuring out where it is, density altitude wise. During the second 5 minutes you can see the ECU start raising and lowering the idle speed above and below the "target" idle speed that it has chosen during the initial 5 minute run. It keeps raising lowering the idle speed in smaller and smaller increments until it arrives at the target idle speed. For the next 5 minutes it monitors itself to make sure it is where it wants to be.
The reason you don't touch the throttle is so the MAP sensor has a relatively constant negative pressure, and uses this information along with the air temperature sensor to figure out what the density altitude is, and use this information to arrive at which point in the map the engine should be running at.
There was another thread like this a while back, and I posted this same information there, and was told by one of our members that I was full of it. I didn't bother responding there, as I'm not going to get into joust with someone over information that I have acquired straight from the factory. However, since ratman1 showed he knows how to use the search function and found this long since idle (no pun intended) thread I thought I would post here since he obviously took the time to really look around.
Ratman.........if you have the stock "green" map I could see where you would start to boil over. When I run my bike in the garage I usually put a 20" box fan in front of the bike to help keep things cool, and the fan will not come on. My bike has to sit at idle for a pretty long time before the fan comes on, unless it is already100 degree's out. You will find that while idling the fan will come on for a while then shut off, and the header will be red hot.
Davo.......... The 02 sensors that came on the 09 bikes were non functional on the N/A bikes as they were not EPA legal due to the fuel tank material. So HBG N/A just flashed in the "closed course" map which deleted the feed back of the 02 sensor. Mine has long since been disconnected and the bung blocked off with a bolt of the correct length and a copper washer. I have never had an issue with my 02 sensor being disconnected. The 02 sensor was to satisfy the Euro II emissions standards, however, beginning in 2010 the 02 sensor was eliminated since the emissions was taken care of through the "green" map that is flashed into the ECU.
Most folks have their ECU re-flashed with the closed course map that richens the mix up, and has the bike running cooler with no duck shooting on decel. And the same burn in procedure applies.
I have used this procedure numerous times and my bike always runs great. It is most noticeable when you make a really big change in density altitude, like going from 2500' at 80 degrees F to 8500' at 80 degrees F. As the bike is sitting there idling while you are getting dressed you can really hear the ECU making changes to adjust to the different altitude. And , pretty soon the bike is idling, and runs the same as it did at your last riding location. Albeit you will notice that it is a little down on power due to the altitude increase.
Density Altitude:
at 80F, 29.95Hg, dew point 30F, 2500' is 4447' density altitude. 91.5% relative horsepower.
at 80F, 29.95Hg, dew point 30F, 2500' is 11,738' density altitude. 70.6% relative horsepower.
This is the calculator I used to get these figures: http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_da.htm Try punching the required numbers from NOAA.gov of your local riding area, at different temps, baro pressure, dew point etc and you will see the difference I'm talking about.
If you are still running a carbbed bike, and keep notes, you can use this calculator to correlate your jetting specs that you have come up with, and simply get the required info from the NOAA.gov site before going riding, and set your jetting before arriving and your bike will run perfect.
But this is the beauty of the EFI system, by letting the bike run at idle for 15 minutes while you get dressed the ECU does all of this work for you. For anyone who has ridden their LDC bike at lower colder temps, and at higher hotter temps, they know the difference in fuel consumption, and how well the motor runs.
Dale
The 5 min number came from another HBG tech that I talked to, and I suggested that b/c some folks don't have fans.
Here's some more info. I watched a KTM dealer dial in a 690 which has basically the same injection system. He had his laptop hooked up to the bike and I could see all the parameters the ECU was seeing rpm, coolant temp, air temp etc.....
During the first 5 minutes the ECU is figuring out where it is, density altitude wise. During the second 5 minutes you can see the ECU start raising and lowering the idle speed above and below the "target" idle speed that it has chosen during the initial 5 minute run. It keeps raising lowering the idle speed in smaller and smaller increments until it arrives at the target idle speed. For the next 5 minutes it monitors itself to make sure it is where it wants to be.
The reason you don't touch the throttle is so the MAP sensor has a relatively constant negative pressure, and uses this information along with the air temperature sensor to figure out what the density altitude is, and use this information to arrive at which point in the map the engine should be running at.
There was another thread like this a while back, and I posted this same information there, and was told by one of our members that I was full of it. I didn't bother responding there, as I'm not going to get into joust with someone over information that I have acquired straight from the factory. However, since ratman1 showed he knows how to use the search function and found this long since idle (no pun intended) thread I thought I would post here since he obviously took the time to really look around.
Ratman.........if you have the stock "green" map I could see where you would start to boil over. When I run my bike in the garage I usually put a 20" box fan in front of the bike to help keep things cool, and the fan will not come on. My bike has to sit at idle for a pretty long time before the fan comes on, unless it is already100 degree's out. You will find that while idling the fan will come on for a while then shut off, and the header will be red hot.
Davo.......... The 02 sensors that came on the 09 bikes were non functional on the N/A bikes as they were not EPA legal due to the fuel tank material. So HBG N/A just flashed in the "closed course" map which deleted the feed back of the 02 sensor. Mine has long since been disconnected and the bung blocked off with a bolt of the correct length and a copper washer. I have never had an issue with my 02 sensor being disconnected. The 02 sensor was to satisfy the Euro II emissions standards, however, beginning in 2010 the 02 sensor was eliminated since the emissions was taken care of through the "green" map that is flashed into the ECU.
Most folks have their ECU re-flashed with the closed course map that richens the mix up, and has the bike running cooler with no duck shooting on decel. And the same burn in procedure applies.
I have used this procedure numerous times and my bike always runs great. It is most noticeable when you make a really big change in density altitude, like going from 2500' at 80 degrees F to 8500' at 80 degrees F. As the bike is sitting there idling while you are getting dressed you can really hear the ECU making changes to adjust to the different altitude. And , pretty soon the bike is idling, and runs the same as it did at your last riding location. Albeit you will notice that it is a little down on power due to the altitude increase.
Density Altitude:
at 80F, 29.95Hg, dew point 30F, 2500' is 4447' density altitude. 91.5% relative horsepower.
at 80F, 29.95Hg, dew point 30F, 2500' is 11,738' density altitude. 70.6% relative horsepower.
This is the calculator I used to get these figures: http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_da.htm Try punching the required numbers from NOAA.gov of your local riding area, at different temps, baro pressure, dew point etc and you will see the difference I'm talking about.
If you are still running a carbbed bike, and keep notes, you can use this calculator to correlate your jetting specs that you have come up with, and simply get the required info from the NOAA.gov site before going riding, and set your jetting before arriving and your bike will run perfect.
But this is the beauty of the EFI system, by letting the bike run at idle for 15 minutes while you get dressed the ECU does all of this work for you. For anyone who has ridden their LDC bike at lower colder temps, and at higher hotter temps, they know the difference in fuel consumption, and how well the motor runs.
Dale
ccasion5: 
