1989 to 2004 Timing Chain and Cam Gear

bahnsy · Feb 17, 2016

With engine parts becoming hard to source its becoming increasingly difficult to understand what parts will work with others when you locate NOS in some of the old Husaberg dealerships
Point in case is the timing chains fitted to bikes from 1989 to 2004.
My understanding is that Husaberg (and later KTM) used three (3) different suppliers of timing chains. Although I have no proof, I believe that Regina supplied the chains from 1989 to 2001. For the 2002 to 2003 models an IWIS chain was used and finally the 2004 model onwards used a DID chain.

My questions related to backward (&) forward inter-changeability and what chain manufactures have proven to be the most durable & reliable.
1 – If I was able to procure a chain longer than I need, i.e. I have a 04 450 that requires a 64 link chain and I was able to source a NOS 78 link chain from a MY96 400, would I be able to safely remove the 14 links and use the chain on my original gears.
2 – Is there a KTM chain of a length longer than I need that I can shorten and use.
3 – Can I interchange the camshaft gears between the alloy an steel versions? (de-comp aside)
4 – What is considered to be the most durable & reliable between the Regina, IWIS & DID chains.

Alloy Timing Gear
20003201 (MY89 to MY96 FC & FE)
20015801 (MY96 FEE)
20015801 (MY97 on)
20027601 (MY02 to MY03 all capacities)

Forged/Cast Steel Gear
80036011000 – (MY03 On - All Capacities)

Timing Chain
64 Link – 20004504 (MY01 to MY03 400cc & 470cc)
64 Link – 80536013000 (MY03 on 450cc)
66 Link – 20004505 (MY01 to MY03 501cc & 550cc)
66 Link – 80036013000 (MY03 on 501cc & 550cc)
70 Link – 20004506 (MY01 to MY03 650cc)
70 Link – 81036013000 (MY03 on 650cc)
78 Link – 20004502 (MY94 to MY00 501cc)
78 Link – 20004502 (MY90 on 350cc)
78 Link – 20004502 (MY96 on 400cc)
80 Link – 20004501 (MY89 to MY93 501cc)
82 Link – 20004503 (MY92 on 600cc)
Timing Chain Clip Link - 20006601 (TBA / MY89 to MY03 On - All Capacities)
Timing Chain Rivet Link - 20030901 (IWIS / MY01 to MY03 On - All Capacities)
Timing Chain Rivet Link - 80036013050 (DID / MY03 On - All Capacities)

zaga · Feb 18, 2016

Hi

Let me try to help from what I know

Yes, if you want to do it you can cut a chain for the correct length of your engine

Yes, you can change the older alloy sprocket to the newer steel one

Other thing, from what I have seen the 01-03 have the steel sprocket, my 98 has the alloy one, so they must have changed around 2000 ???

Also I don't have enough experience comparing chains, but I can tell you that the IWIS is a very good one, I have one running for more than 5 years.

ZAGA

bushmechanic · Feb 18, 2016

from what ive found iwis and did are the same longevity its just that the iwis is effectively shorter so it appears to last longer, Regina is shorter again.

orangeberg has stock of regina cut to suit.

did is lighter and has solid rollers not split rollers like the iwis

the chain code is 06B and this is the same as found in many automotive engines

KTM chain = no they use an 03B in the rfs which is lighter bit different pitch /length etc

the upper and lower sprockets however are interchangeable with the rfs engines/berg just that the distance between the 2 is different.

spanner · Feb 18, 2016

Can the chain be brought by the metre?
That is what I would like to know.

bahnsy · Feb 18, 2016

bushmechanic said:
from what ive found iwis and did are the same longevity its just that the iwis is effectively shorter so it appears to last longer, Regina is shorter again./QUOTE]

Bushy,
I'm a little unsure by what you mean when you say a chain is effectively longer.

Rod

bushmechanic · Feb 18, 2016

The rollers on the did are smaller (very slightly) so when in use it appears longer

The difference between sprocket centres on my 650 is about 1.2mm between the Iwis and the did

I know because I moved the cam 1mm up in my engine

Before I moved it a new did had 2 clicks left and the new Iwis something like 8 on the same bike

Some people have found that a Regina chain is simply too tight to put on at all

May be of use when building strange engine combinations

WArdogG · Feb 18, 2016

Bushie, was it Spanner who was busy making a different shaped tensioner blade for the cam chain? I was wondering about doing the same, since I have the same issue, new DiD chain has 2 or clicks left on the tensioner. Which means I effectively only get like 50hrs or so before the tensioner is maxed and I have to replace the chain...or make some other plan to support the chain a bit better to get more life out of the chain.

Extending the tensioner is a no-go, since the chain will start rubbing on the water port if extended beyond the standard reach of the tensioner.

I have an idea there, but I will try it first and see how it turns out

zaga · Feb 19, 2016

Hi

Bushie, how can you interchange sprockets with RFS with different pitches ?

Or do you mean change everything ? both sprockets and chain from RFS ?

ZAGA

husabutt · Feb 19, 2016

I do know that the KTM RFS cam sprocket will not directly interchange with a Berg sprocket. If I remember correctly it has too many teeth that are smaller and the sprocket is thinner.

As for the bottom sprocket remember the gen 1 runs off the crank and the gen 2 runs off the balancer.

I will dig out the KTM sprocket and post some comparison pics.

bushmechanic · Feb 19, 2016

That is corect The lower Ktm rfs cam chain drive sprocket interchanges with the lower husaberg one

The upper cam chain sprocket also interchanges

The distance between them is different obviously and also pitch so you would have to use both

If you could match up the difference in distance somehow ( Frankenstein engine ) then you would have an opportunity to use the lighter chain (03B).

bushmechanic · Feb 19, 2016

WArdogG said:
Bushie, was it Spanner who was busy making a different shaped tensioner blade for the cam chain? I was wondering about doing the same, since I have the same issue, new DiD chain has 2 or clicks left on the tensioner. Which means I effectively only get like 50hrs or so before the tensioner is maxed and I have to replace the chain...or make some other plan to support the chain a bit better to get more life out of the chain.

Extending the tensioner is a no-go, since the chain will start rubbing on the water port if extended beyond the standard reach of the tensioner.

I have an idea there, but I will try it first and see how it turns out

Yes it was spanner. Also fd racing made a set up with 2 tensioners. One in front of the engine and one behind it helped to adjust cam timing

You might be able to use a thicker head gasket and a taller piston

spanner · Feb 19, 2016

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husabutt · Feb 19, 2016

The KTM RFS sprocket is on the right.

Husaberg sprocket (1997): 30 teeth 5.3mm wide
KTM RFS sprocket (2007): 36 teeth 4.0mm wide

When I put the RFS cam in my 97 600 it was about 2.00mm longer where the sprocket bolts up to the cam. Obviously KTM did this to make up the difference for the thinner sprocket. I used a 04-08 Husaberg cam sprocket and turned it over as it is handed or dished out like the KTM sprocket. This set the sprocket back enough for decent upper and lower sprocket alignment. Thanks to Taffy and Bushie for their help on that.

As parts for the gen 1 motors are getting a bit scarce it would be a nice upgrade if someone put together a kit using the KTM sprockets and timing chain. The smaller lighter chain would probably give a little performance boost.

Bahnsey the answer to your original question #3 is as far as I know yes.

Taffy · Feb 22, 2016

husabutt said:
The KTM RFS sprocket is on the right.

Husaberg sprocket (1997): 30 teeth 5.3mm wide
KTM RFS sprocket (2007): 36 teeth 4.0mm wide

When I put the RFS cam in my 97 600 it was about 2.00mm longer where the sprocket bolts up to the cam. Obviously KTM did this to make up the difference for the thinner sprocket. I used a 04-08 Husaberg cam sprocket and turned it over as it is handed or dished out like the KTM sprocket. This set the sprocket back enough for decent upper and lower sprocket alignment. Thanks to Taffy and Bushie for their help on that.

As parts for the gen 1 motors are getting a bit scarce it would be a nice upgrade if someone put together a kit using the KTM sprockets and timing chain. The smaller lighter chain would probably give a little performance boost.

Bahnsey the answer to your original question #3 is as far as I know yes.

split links aren't available in the smaller chains and that could get expensive what with knocking links off all the time.

also, the '53' chain is 16mm before you get back to exactly the first link pin and start a pair of links again.

so the height of the cylinder head has to be right within an 8mm 'lucky' range. unfortunately - it isn't! your one half of a link short.

regards

Taffy

zaga · Feb 24, 2016

Hi all

Since you've started talking about cam chains, I've started to have nightmares and earing sounds on my 400-02 engine, that I put a lot of hours every year.

So I went to check my chain yesterday and I still have 5 clicks on the tensioner, after more then 5 years of use

I have to say I have the newer tensioner blade.

So I have to put here a good word for the IWIS cam chain.

Any of you think that after all this time, I should change it anyway ?

ZAGA

Taffy · Feb 24, 2016

Hello Zaga

I think there are 16-17 clicks and you don't lose any when you fit them on some bikes, others you lose 5 clicks. so do you recall whether you had to stuff the CCT in Zaga or did it use 4-5 clicks up?

this will give you a more honest indicator!

cam chains on offer here from the 1st of March at £36 down from £46. that is for the whole of March. we're going to do all that sha-mooz stuff now! not my cup of tea but hell.....

Taffy

zaga · Feb 24, 2016

Hi Taffy

From what I remember, with the new blade, I think I used 1 or 2 clicks max.

Not sure but I remember it was tight.

ZAGA

Taffy · Feb 24, 2016

so you have used 7-8 clicks tops. the best thing to do is to hold the chain on the sprocket and pull two ends around the back so it is tight and then try and pluck a link up from off the sprocket teeth.

regards

Taffy

zaga · Feb 24, 2016

Hi

No, if you say it has a total of 16-17 clicks, I has stretched at least 13-14 clicks.

ZAGA

Taffy · Feb 24, 2016

16 clicks new. you lost 3 when you fitted it and it is on 11 clicks now because you said you have 5 clicks left. 3rd to 11th click equals 8 clicks.

anyway, I guess I misunderstood somewhere!

Taffy

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1989 to 2004 Timing Chain and Cam Gear

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