105mm Piston - Group buy?

Goose916 · Mar 25, 2016

bergmann said:
Stupid question. Will these fit in the 644 motor or just the 628's?

if the wrist pin is the same diameter, I can't see why not. I believe the only difference is in the rod length and big end diameter (smaller). But I think the lil end is the same. However you should check the manual, and with Bushy, Dr. C, Spanner or Taffy to confirm as I have never had a 644 motor.

Taffy · Mar 26, 2016

I doubt that the bottom end of a 644 could take the 105mm piston without the compression coming right down. it only has a 32mm big end and the 628s have a 35mm big end. I'd get a 2005-2008 crank AND do this - yes. but not on the OEM crank.

regards

Taffy

bushmechanic · Mar 26, 2016

It has been done 105 x 82 with the old crank. But not my me and not for 360 hours lol

Contiman and others have done it. Not with standard mains. Some used 22206 spherical rollers others a 20mm wide nj2206 on the drive side

And not with this piston ! The jbs pistons are not as tall

The actual question is: weather this particular piston actually fits in a 644 with it's 24.5mm height?

for the 80mm stroke with a rod length of 136.1 to 136.2mm and the piston at 24.5 the top of the piston is level with the cases.

According to this site The 644 had 2 lengths of rod 134 and 135mm and an 82mm stroke so you can figure it Should work for the 134mm rod with a very large squish about 2mm . So yes it fits But!

With the 135 mm rod squish will be nicer (same as with the 80mm crank) but Compression will be very high look out

bergmann · Mar 26, 2016

Thanks for the info guys

Goose916 · Mar 30, 2016

Update: Just got off phone with Al. Build sheet is progressing and should be completed by end of week. He stated there may be some questions. I will apprise as I hear back. Moving forward

Goose916 · Apr 8, 2016

No word yet. I plan to follow up on Tuesday. I'm slammed Monday but I think I have Tuesday off.

WArdogG · Apr 8, 2016

I will be opening up my 644 engine soon for routine inspection, I will measure the piston, but, as stated by others earlier in the thread, I'm sure this 105 piston wont work on the 644 without modification. I'm guessing the 105 piston is going to be about 1.5mm above the liner. Maybe I've got it backwards, but according to the Wossner spec, the 644 piston deck height is 23mm, assuming that piston is level with the liner, putting a (628)24.5mm piston on the 644 crank will have the piston above the liner?
This is just speculating though, I will check this out soon...
Either machining the piston down if possible, or getting a shorter conrod could make it work...

Goose, how many of the batch pistons have been allocated?
And are you having them make 105mm head gaskets as well, or getting them somewhere else?

Goose916 · Apr 13, 2016

Left a message and a follow up email too . . . no response yet, but I just sent it so stay tuned (meant to do so yesterday but it was too late by the time I got to that part of my "to do" list - and it was in the priority section of the list - kinda goes to show ya how long that list is!). Will apprise when I hear back . . .

bushmechanic · Apr 13, 2016

Hi wardog

As I wrote it will fit in the 644 the 23mm high pistons don't come up to the top

You have a 135 and a 134mm rod most are 135 and you have a 41 mm throw on the crank

Same as an 80mm stroke crank (40mm throw) with 136mm rod

The issue is rather compression which will be high

Fwiw head volume in approximately 38cc you can figure the rest

Goose916 · Apr 15, 2016

And for the win (be advised, I requested valve pockets for size 37/32 valves). I didn't receive any response to uncut tops and will follow up with that for Spanner and anyone else who wants one. Minimum Order is 12. I'll speak for 4 of the 12. I'd like to order in 2 weeks (after paying taxes and hopefully getting some accounts receivable in - and organizing 1) receipt of payment from those interested; 2) the payment to Wiseco - custom so it's up front in total); 3) shipping to all those who buy piston(s). Without further hubbub:

"Kevin, Cost per piston without skirt coating for a 12 piston order will be $120.82. With skirt coating price per piston will be $134.82.

Thanks,

Alan Pizzino
Technical Sales
Wiseco Performance Products
440-497-3105
7201 Industrial Park Blvd
Mentor OH 44060
440-497-3105 (direct line)
800-321-1364 (general line)
440-951-6606 (fax)"

Please post up your interest and whether you are committed to purchase (ie., money in hand). I'll see what I can do to grab a few extras for those who may be interested but short on dosh (slang for money). I'll start a new thread it is easy to figure out who wants what. In the meantime . . . Yay! So, who is in charge of the custom liner order so I can get on board with that too?

Goose916 · Apr 15, 2016

Order Thread is in Classifieds under Willing to Buy moniker

bushmechanic · Apr 16, 2016

Liners we have a choice Westwood can do it and cheaply but perhaps we should consider Datron and the other one I can't recall the name but they impregnate the iron with silicon carbide

I can ask them for quote:

Obviously we looking at a run of about 12 ?

What's your thoughts spanner on cooling fins and a groove or lip on top for the head gasket ?

pollo · Apr 16, 2016

This 105mm piston makes the 628 a 700 right? And with the larger piston a larger diameter liner to accommodate? Sorry for the question so late. Maybe someone can clarify. I had heard there is no need to bore and thought the original piston was 100mm

spanner · Apr 16, 2016

Hi Bushie all,

What's your thoughts spanner on cooling fins and a groove or lip on top for the head gasket ?

I myself would like to get a Daton blank and machine it myself.
In my case overheating has never been a problem as I am riding at enough
speed to keep the air flowing through the radiator, so grooves are probably
not a necessary. I would prefer a radius at the bottom of the grove if I was going that way.

I still having a sealing problem, the cylinder is sealed compression wise, but
coolant leaks from the joint a bit, but is not a concern.

I have found a source of correct sized Phuzion gas filled O-rings that I would like to try out as a seal they could be used with a copper gasket of suitable thickness. and would not require the interference pressures of a wire seal.

bushmechanic · Apr 16, 2016

Yes 628 will be approx 690cc

Needs iron liner finished at 104.775mm

bushmechanic · Apr 16, 2016

Thanks spanner good ideas

Yes I think a group order of liners may not be any cheaper but we will see

I'll find out
Cheers

bushie

Taffy · Apr 17, 2016

I've got several liners here.

Taffy

Goose916 · Apr 26, 2016

Also posted in the wanted thread:

It's looking like the end of the first week in May (I have a slow paying client that is supposed to make good by then - even if not, I'll have the dinero from other resources). I'll finalize the list on Friday, complete with "specialty issues" such as coatings and so far, spanner's request for a blank top (haven't heard back on that yet, will call al tomorrow).

Which reminds me, I'll post up paypal instructions too (Piston only) so we can get the ball rolling on contruction. Thereafter, I will request address info so I can calculate shipping rates to the various addresses and send you option on that too! Is that ok with everyone? Frankly, without the darn thing, I can only guess at the shipping anyway. Would rather give complete info than hypothetical and then have to change. I'll acquire quotes from various providers, type (express, semi-express, slow boat to china) rates and send them to everyone specifically for the provided shipping addy.

Sorry for the delay on my end, client owes a substantial chunk of money and only now am I able to offset the delay and pay for the pistons I've comitted to. Again, my apologies, but I'm firm with respect to May 7 commitment. Look for private messages on Friday! Your patience and input has been greatly appreciated (so great it hard to express). BTW, did anyone check if we can get a group rate on the liners?

bushmechanic · Apr 27, 2016

im checking goose just very slowly .. sorry

so far its difficult to negotiate a design of o ring grooves outside the normal parameters. the 1.5mm orings that are available in 100mm need very deep grooves that make the liner 0.9mm thick at those points.

i can make my own liner from the datron blank and will go that way with spanner but i will post up details of options of group buy etc when i get a solid answer

IMHO 3 small grooves to take 1mm orings is all that is needed and in the event they are not available just use 1207B in those grooves.

regarding headgaskets i think a 55 - 60 thou copper ring inside a modified oem headgasket with a wire ring in top of the liner is needed.

my thoughts are that a group order of these from someone with water cutter will be the way to go.

will post pictures and drawings asap

Lanttola · Jun 4, 2016

So how did this go?
Any spare pistons made?

I would be interested in one since I have a new 105mm JBS liner lying around.

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