I haven't, but I know many who do. They find that the bike is much more stable and does not loose any of its turning prowess. I believe that the 2010 bikes come with 22 mm offset std.
Simply replacing triple clamps with a set that have more offset decreases the steering 'trail' and hence reduces high speed stability to some extent due to the lessened self-centering effect.
It would be interesting to talk to these guys and have them explain what they mean by stability.
Reducing trail will reduce straight line stability. BUT, does a bike with more trail, that wants to go straight (a characteristic of more trail), feel less stable in corners due to it wanting to straighten out?????
I know a couple of guys that are using the 22mm clamps that like them very much, they both state they are more stable. Hmmmmmm...... These are top level riders saying this, maybe I need to pick their brains.
Reducing trail will reduce straight line stability. BUT, does a bike with more trail, that wants to go straight (a characteristic of more trail), feel less stable in corners due to it wanting to straighten out?????
I know a couple of guys that are using the 22mm clamps that like them very much, they both state they are more stable. Hmmmmmm...... These are top level riders saying this, maybe I need to pick their brains.
I have those installed on my bike on the quicker steering setting. Makes it much nicer & easier to turn in when you're riding single track. Much easier to change direction. Also have a 7.6 rear spring & have the fork pre load at 3.75 turns. I weigh 88kgs + gear..
A couple of mates rode a standard one demo FE450 back to back with mine a couple of weeks ago & made much comment on how nicer it felt & easier to steer..
See my Gallery for more pics:
A couple of mates rode a standard one demo FE450 back to back with mine a couple of weeks ago & made much comment on how nicer it felt & easier to steer..
See my Gallery for more pics:
Well,
If you just put the 22mm clamps on it decreases the trail, and in theory makes the bike less stable at both High and Low speed, and has less weight on the front end since you are in effect increasing the wheel base.
However, at the same time, since you are decreasing the weight on the front end, a knock on effect is that if you did not change your fork springs, the front end will ride higher in the travel thus reducing the rake angle, ergo, making the bike feel more stable.
Again, in theory, once you have increased the bikes' wheel base it also makes a the rear ride a bit higher as well as there is less weight on it now too.
I am running the stock 19mm clamps on my 09 and have revalved and re sprung my bike for my weight, and I can say quite enthusiastically, that it is by far and away the most stable bike I have ever ridden.
Every change you make on a bikes geometry, spring rate, valving rate(s) has an effect on the whole package.
If you just put the 22mm clamps on it decreases the trail, and in theory makes the bike less stable at both High and Low speed, and has less weight on the front end since you are in effect increasing the wheel base.
However, at the same time, since you are decreasing the weight on the front end, a knock on effect is that if you did not change your fork springs, the front end will ride higher in the travel thus reducing the rake angle, ergo, making the bike feel more stable.
Again, in theory, once you have increased the bikes' wheel base it also makes a the rear ride a bit higher as well as there is less weight on it now too.
I am running the stock 19mm clamps on my 09 and have revalved and re sprung my bike for my weight, and I can say quite enthusiastically, that it is by far and away the most stable bike I have ever ridden.
Every change you make on a bikes geometry, spring rate, valving rate(s) has an effect on the whole package.
Re: RE: 09 22mm triple clamp
Hi Dale
I can't confirm any spring changes, but I was told there would be valving changes, which is typical. The 22s and a low fuel indicator are the only 'big' upgrades. Kinda boring I know, but why mess around with a good thing. The low fuel indicator is a wise thing, fell victim to running out of fuel myself this weekend.
DaleEO said:
Hi Dale
I can't confirm any spring changes, but I was told there would be valving changes, which is typical. The 22s and a low fuel indicator are the only 'big' upgrades. Kinda boring I know, but why mess around with a good thing. The low fuel indicator is a wise thing, fell victim to running out of fuel myself this weekend.
mud400 said:
Any complaints that I've heard about stability are best described as 2 stroke stability, where the bike moves around some. The bike certainly does not do tank slappers unless it is not set up properly.
Joined Jun 2004
380 Posts | 0+
Sandpoint ID
thanks for the replys I hade a feeling that I would set off a decusion about trail and its effect on stability. I stand up and ride alot and the trails i ride is most likely very similar to the trails that Fry rides bottom line is that the margin of error is slim straight down on one side and straight up on the other side. my 07 450 have 22mm offset same as the other husaberg that I have owned you lean the bike over and it will naturally steer
proportionally to to the lean angle in other words very shure footed and comfortable days ride, the 09 you have to steer more so at lean angle than the other husabergs
I have not tested to what different offset would to the handling of a bike so my feeling
with the 09 is that it feels like a KTM / Honda but not like old husaberg,Yamaha or Kawasaki common denominator is that KTM / honda have less offset so what i am struggling with is if 22mm offset would get handling that I want or this is trait of the 09
with its revolutionary design
later VIKING
proportionally to to the lean angle in other words very shure footed and comfortable days ride, the 09 you have to steer more so at lean angle than the other husabergs
I have not tested to what different offset would to the handling of a bike so my feeling
with the 09 is that it feels like a KTM / Honda but not like old husaberg,Yamaha or Kawasaki common denominator is that KTM / honda have less offset so what i am struggling with is if 22mm offset would get handling that I want or this is trait of the 09
with its revolutionary design
later VIKING
A final comment from me here on this subject,
The problem is not necessarily the off set. The problem if there is one, is that the suspension is not set up properly to begin with. I can't overstate the night and day difference I experienced with my 09 after I had my suspension set up by Steve Searcy at Clean Racing. This is by far and away the best handling bike I have ever had. And this was all accomplished through the correct springs and spring rates, and proper valving.
I brought the suspension home after he worked on it, bolted it on, and wa la! The sag was perfect, and it just plain works everywhere. I have tried making a few clicker and pre load changes, but, have ended up right back where he had it set. The only change I made recently as you will see in my up coming ride report on the IDC event, was that I backed off the low speed compression clickers, 3 clicks, for that event due to it's slow speed average and tight conditions.
From what I have seen here on the site, most people are running way too much rider sag, (105mm to 115mm, I'm running 90mm) which results in too little bite on the front end. And anyone who has messed around with the PDS system knows, these bikes are sensitve to ride height.
And, IMHO, the straight rate spring in the rear is not the way to go.
It is also my observation that while a lot of people are changing the rear spring, few are balancing that change with the correct fork springs. Perhaps that is why so many are running the excessive rider sag numbers, b/c they have not put the correct fork springs in the bike, and the bike then becomes excessively weight biased towards the front. Ergo, causing the bike to hang down in the travel in the front, into the mid stroke of the fork, and thereby effectively decreasing the rake angle, and along with the mid stroke compression spike causes both geometry instability, as well as hydraulic compression deflection, thereby making for a nervous feeling bike.
Or, the forks are just hanging down in the travel due to the riders weight, with all of the associated problems that go along with too soft fork springs, and they are trying to compensate for those problems with increased rider sag in the rear. Either way, it's a bit of tail chasing anyway you look at it.
As delivered, the 09's are a bit nervous, the springs were too soft for me at 200# with gear, and the valving offers a harsh mid stroke spike, that when faced with a big hit, blows through the travel, the best of both worlds LOL! Having said that, I would like to say that this is one of the best stock suspended bikes I have ridden. I do realize that the stock settings are a compromise for an across the board spectrum of riders and conditions.
One cannot compensate for basic incorrect suspension set up with, steering stabilizers (yes I run one, although with my new bike and it's corrected set up I have greatly reduced it's settings to offer help only with the no seeums), off set changes, wild clicker settings, or reservoir changes from pistion type to bladder.
One has to begin with the correct set up, and then fine tune with limited clicker settings, small fork tube height changes in the triple clamps, small changes in triple clamp off set, small changes in triple clamp profiles, and small changes ( 1 turn usually) in shock spring pre load. All of these small changes will be very noticable in a suspension system that has been properly set up.
The problem is not necessarily the off set. The problem if there is one, is that the suspension is not set up properly to begin with. I can't overstate the night and day difference I experienced with my 09 after I had my suspension set up by Steve Searcy at Clean Racing. This is by far and away the best handling bike I have ever had. And this was all accomplished through the correct springs and spring rates, and proper valving.
I brought the suspension home after he worked on it, bolted it on, and wa la! The sag was perfect, and it just plain works everywhere. I have tried making a few clicker and pre load changes, but, have ended up right back where he had it set. The only change I made recently as you will see in my up coming ride report on the IDC event, was that I backed off the low speed compression clickers, 3 clicks, for that event due to it's slow speed average and tight conditions.
From what I have seen here on the site, most people are running way too much rider sag, (105mm to 115mm, I'm running 90mm) which results in too little bite on the front end. And anyone who has messed around with the PDS system knows, these bikes are sensitve to ride height.
And, IMHO, the straight rate spring in the rear is not the way to go.
It is also my observation that while a lot of people are changing the rear spring, few are balancing that change with the correct fork springs. Perhaps that is why so many are running the excessive rider sag numbers, b/c they have not put the correct fork springs in the bike, and the bike then becomes excessively weight biased towards the front. Ergo, causing the bike to hang down in the travel in the front, into the mid stroke of the fork, and thereby effectively decreasing the rake angle, and along with the mid stroke compression spike causes both geometry instability, as well as hydraulic compression deflection, thereby making for a nervous feeling bike.
Or, the forks are just hanging down in the travel due to the riders weight, with all of the associated problems that go along with too soft fork springs, and they are trying to compensate for those problems with increased rider sag in the rear. Either way, it's a bit of tail chasing anyway you look at it.
As delivered, the 09's are a bit nervous, the springs were too soft for me at 200# with gear, and the valving offers a harsh mid stroke spike, that when faced with a big hit, blows through the travel, the best of both worlds LOL! Having said that, I would like to say that this is one of the best stock suspended bikes I have ridden. I do realize that the stock settings are a compromise for an across the board spectrum of riders and conditions.
One cannot compensate for basic incorrect suspension set up with, steering stabilizers (yes I run one, although with my new bike and it's corrected set up I have greatly reduced it's settings to offer help only with the no seeums), off set changes, wild clicker settings, or reservoir changes from pistion type to bladder.
One has to begin with the correct set up, and then fine tune with limited clicker settings, small fork tube height changes in the triple clamps, small changes in triple clamp off set, small changes in triple clamp profiles, and small changes ( 1 turn usually) in shock spring pre load. All of these small changes will be very noticable in a suspension system that has been properly set up.
Joined Jun 2004
380 Posts | 0+
Sandpoint ID
DaleOE
I dont think that it has to do with suspension will moded fork help yes I think that stock fork is pretty good can it be improved yes, when a factory settles on suspension settings
it is to fit a many types of riders and terrain where you live I too would go in the direction that you have taken with the suspension to use that type of setup where I live
would be rather uncomfortable we are opposite end terrain and speed, I know that you have done the idaho city isde qualifier so you have an idea what I am talking about
now lower average speed down to 14mph thats where the the problem with handling comes into play I want to trust the bike that goes where I want to go because if you over ride the trail you will crash then there is alot of bike wrestling it is more entertaining to watch but i have been on both sides so I fully appreciates staying on the trail.
I am curios what brand of progressive you are using I have tryed some race tech springs
but they where to soft initially
Regards VIKING
I dont think that it has to do with suspension will moded fork help yes I think that stock fork is pretty good can it be improved yes, when a factory settles on suspension settings
it is to fit a many types of riders and terrain where you live I too would go in the direction that you have taken with the suspension to use that type of setup where I live
would be rather uncomfortable we are opposite end terrain and speed, I know that you have done the idaho city isde qualifier so you have an idea what I am talking about
now lower average speed down to 14mph thats where the the problem with handling comes into play I want to trust the bike that goes where I want to go because if you over ride the trail you will crash then there is alot of bike wrestling it is more entertaining to watch but i have been on both sides so I fully appreciates staying on the trail.
I am curios what brand of progressive you are using I have tryed some race tech springs
but they where to soft initially
Regards VIKING
VIKING said:
Greetings Viking,
I must respectfully disagree with your first statement, I think that it has a great deal to do with the suspension.
Agreed, the factory settles on valving settings that are for a wide spectrum of riding conditions and abilities, and that it can be improved, especially by a good tuner who sets the bike up for you, and perhaps in this case a more narrow range of riding conditions. Just like the big boys do when they go from one race to another, they tune the suspension for that area no? So, with that in mind having your suspension set up for you, your style, and your riding conditions would be a great investment for you.
And the 09 Fork is awesome! It has a great deal of potential, it just needs to be exploited.
And yes, just did this years IDC 100 so I think I know your riding conditions. However, even though my bike is set up for a desert expert, it worked great in ID with only 3 clicks out on the low speed adjusters. Very agile, and stable. And to my point, that is the benefit of having a bike that is set up for my weight and riding ability, it works great everywhere. Yes, it is true that there is some compromise here, however, as a good friend of mine once said, "if you can get your bike to work good in Johnson Valley, it will work good everywhere" And that's b/c Johnson Valley is so varied in terrain, from wide open desert, to sand washes, to endless virgin rock fields, to very tight technical terrain much like your forests, but, without the trees.
As I inferred before, if I know I'm going to go and ride tight single track in the forests I back out 3-5 clicks on the low speed compression, and might consider raising the tubes in the triple trees 3-5mm's, and it will work even better. If I'm riding in my home area in the desert, I run the suspension as delivered from my suspension guy. It just works great everywhere, because it is a balanced package.
I'm using a WP progressive spring.
Respectfully submitted,
Dale
LuKe said:I have those installed on my bike on the quicker steering setting. Makes it much nicer & easier to turn in when you're riding single track. Much easier to change direction. Also have a 7.6 rear spring & have the fork pre load at 3.75 turns. I weigh 88kgs + gear..
A couple of mates rode a standard one demo FE450 back to back with mine a couple of weeks ago & made much comment on how nicer it felt & easier to steer..
See my Gallery for more pics:
By the way Luke,
Those are awesome looking clamps!!
LuKe said:I have those installed on my bike on the quicker steering setting. Makes it much nicer & easier to turn in when you're riding single track. Much easier to change direction. Also have a 7.6 rear spring & have the fork pre load at 3.75 turns. I weigh 88kgs + gear..
A couple of mates rode a standard one demo FE450 back to back with mine a couple of weeks ago & made much comment on how nicer it felt & easier to steer..
See my Gallery for more pics:
Hi Luke,
Thats interesting, i have 20mm offset at the mo on mine.
I take it that the quicker steering setting means 22mm offset on those lovely blue clamps?
Do you have the rear wheel forward or back in swingarm to work best with that combo?
Did you up the fork springs to 46s or keep the 44s ?
Did you increase the preload to raise the front for turning stability?
I have the 46s on mine and find a few turns of preload helps with that dive in the initial stroke but i start to lose overall travel.
Hope you dont mind all the questions, i am same weight and also ride single track & tight woods, so just curious.
Thanks,
Nick
Hi Nick
Yes it steers quicker than the standard setting for sure. Makes it that much more nibble in single track. We tested this in the same 3.5km loop where we cannot get out of 3rd gear & mine was a far easier bike to turn/ride than a stock FE450
My rear wheel has been in the same spot since new about in the centre of adjustment:
Fork springs are stock. I settled on 3.75 turns from full soft. Stock preload was too soft, about 1.5 turns for memory. I tried 4.5 turns first but was too rigid for me.. IMO, if you don't use all the travel on your springs atleast once on your favourite tracks pushing hard then you should go back to the 44's..
I installed a 7.6 spring in the rear after the first couple of rides. This has been the hardest part to dial in for me. I'm at work so cannot remember the exact sag measurements - I have them written down in the shed..
Hope this has helped!
Cheers
Luke
P.S. I have had the last 3 years worth of WP forks; 07 EXC-F & a current 08 EXC-R & these forks are by far the best imo..
Yes it steers quicker than the standard setting for sure. Makes it that much more nibble in single track. We tested this in the same 3.5km loop where we cannot get out of 3rd gear & mine was a far easier bike to turn/ride than a stock FE450
My rear wheel has been in the same spot since new about in the centre of adjustment:
Fork springs are stock. I settled on 3.75 turns from full soft. Stock preload was too soft, about 1.5 turns for memory. I tried 4.5 turns first but was too rigid for me.. IMO, if you don't use all the travel on your springs atleast once on your favourite tracks pushing hard then you should go back to the 44's..
I installed a 7.6 spring in the rear after the first couple of rides. This has been the hardest part to dial in for me. I'm at work so cannot remember the exact sag measurements - I have them written down in the shed..
Hope this has helped!
Cheers
Luke
P.S. I have had the last 3 years worth of WP forks; 07 EXC-F & a current 08 EXC-R & these forks are by far the best imo..
I wonder if the offset change is to keep the wheelbase the same when you have to shorten the chain after the first few rides..... Everyone was complaining about the wheel being all the way back in the swingarm from the factory, is this their fix???
Ryan
Ryan
Joined Jun 2004
380 Posts | 0+
Sandpoint ID
To satisfy my own curiosity 22mm triple clamps was installed and I had a few rides with them installed. problem that I had with the 09 was that it felt was that it did not want to
track straight at low speed any object on the trail would send the bike left or right and this had nothing to do with the suspension (I tryed lots of setting and other components)
with 22mm clamps fixed the problem tracking very good at slow speeds I can now ride a
rut with no problem just like older bergs other thing that I notice is that going into a turn
under heavy front brake you can now change direction more easy on the down side it does not stand backup as quick coming out of turn overall it is more stable at speed
calm feeling one other area that has been a concern is that that in slight turn the bike wanted to push the front end I could reduce the problem but never make it go away
that issue is resolved with the 22mm clamps I know now if I own a KTM it would receive 22mm clamps and interestingly the 2010 KTM 450 SX get just that. the Husaberg factory
boys are rumored to run 24mm clamps, to sum the while thing up there are more positives than negatives with 22mm clamps
later VIKING
track straight at low speed any object on the trail would send the bike left or right and this had nothing to do with the suspension (I tryed lots of setting and other components)
with 22mm clamps fixed the problem tracking very good at slow speeds I can now ride a
rut with no problem just like older bergs other thing that I notice is that going into a turn
under heavy front brake you can now change direction more easy on the down side it does not stand backup as quick coming out of turn overall it is more stable at speed
calm feeling one other area that has been a concern is that that in slight turn the bike wanted to push the front end I could reduce the problem but never make it go away
that issue is resolved with the 22mm clamps I know now if I own a KTM it would receive 22mm clamps and interestingly the 2010 KTM 450 SX get just that. the Husaberg factory
boys are rumored to run 24mm clamps, to sum the while thing up there are more positives than negatives with 22mm clamps
later VIKING
LuKe said:Hi Nick
Yes it steers quicker than the standard setting for sure. Makes it that much more nibble in single track. We tested this in the same 3.5km loop where we cannot get out of 3rd gear & mine was a far easier bike to turn/ride than a stock FE450
My rear wheel has been in the same spot since new about in the centre of adjustment:
Fork springs are stock. I settled on 3.75 turns from full soft. Stock preload was too soft, about 1.5 turns for memory. I tried 4.5 turns first but was too rigid for me.. IMO, if you don't use all the travel on your springs atleast once on your favourite tracks pushing hard then you should go back to the 44's..
I installed a 7.6 spring in the rear after the first couple of rides. This has been the hardest part to dial in for me. I'm at work so cannot remember the exact sag measurements - I have them written down in the shed..
Hope this has helped!
Cheers
Luke
P.S. I have had the last 3 years worth of WP forks; 07 EXC-F & a current 08 EXC-R & these forks are by far the best imo..
Thanks Luke,
Its taken me quite a while to fine tune my 570 even after a revalve.
I will post my setup shortly in the handling/suspension section.
Viking,
Nice info in favour of 22mm clamps.
I have wheel right back and 20mm offset on mine and it tracks thro long narrow ruts better than any bike ive had.
I hear you on the turning issues though, interesting.
Cheers,
Nick
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