Mark
A friend in Calgary has an 05 FC 450 for practice, he rides expert offroad ( ISDE silver medalist ) and is int/exp motocrosser. Once he set the bike up, oil height in the forks, clickers, bar position, etc. he became very comfortable with the bike, favouring it over his traded 2006 CRF 450.
He let other riders take the bike for a moto to get their impression of how it works. Most, at least those that were honest, claimed they liked the bike better than the Japanese bikes that were more commonly known as 'the best'. Although the FC was down on power, what power was there was all usable, and favourable to riding an entire moto at race pace. The bike is not tiring, was controlable in the corner and basically was a huge surprise to all who rode it.
So power may be all that everyone talks about, but, getting the power to the ground with out tiring you out is a topic most don't understand or won't allow themselves to understand. The new 59hp 450 KTM sounds like a show stopper, but WHO can honestly say that they will go faster, for a whole moto on that, compared to their old SOHC 450.
At the same time, easy power is available from proper jetting, the slip on pipe will give you a stronger mid to top, the full system will give you more everywhere and a 4 hp gain, and products like the powernow may help throttle response. In reality, tuning is your best bet, with carefull consideration to where you want inprovement and what will get you what you want.
Now considering you are already riding a 550, a stk 450 is just not likely going to work. I'm sure there is that option out there for you mod a 450 to your liking.
fry
A friend in Calgary has an 05 FC 450 for practice, he rides expert offroad ( ISDE silver medalist ) and is int/exp motocrosser. Once he set the bike up, oil height in the forks, clickers, bar position, etc. he became very comfortable with the bike, favouring it over his traded 2006 CRF 450.
He let other riders take the bike for a moto to get their impression of how it works. Most, at least those that were honest, claimed they liked the bike better than the Japanese bikes that were more commonly known as 'the best'. Although the FC was down on power, what power was there was all usable, and favourable to riding an entire moto at race pace. The bike is not tiring, was controlable in the corner and basically was a huge surprise to all who rode it.
So power may be all that everyone talks about, but, getting the power to the ground with out tiring you out is a topic most don't understand or won't allow themselves to understand. The new 59hp 450 KTM sounds like a show stopper, but WHO can honestly say that they will go faster, for a whole moto on that, compared to their old SOHC 450.
At the same time, easy power is available from proper jetting, the slip on pipe will give you a stronger mid to top, the full system will give you more everywhere and a 4 hp gain, and products like the powernow may help throttle response. In reality, tuning is your best bet, with carefull consideration to where you want inprovement and what will get you what you want.
Now considering you are already riding a 550, a stk 450 is just not likely going to work. I'm sure there is that option out there for you mod a 450 to your liking.
fry
Joined Jun 2004
380 Posts | 0+
Sandpoint ID
Hi
everything has it place horsepower that does not make it to ground is
useless in other words tortoise beats the hare
Fry I know why your friend likes his FC 450 but for average joe it is hard
see past the clamour what Ricky or other top riders brand rides
what they rides is not stock and even if we could ride there bikes we most
likely would not like them for us deadly Husaberg is very good choice
so long VIKING
everything has it place horsepower that does not make it to ground is
useless in other words tortoise beats the hare
Fry I know why your friend likes his FC 450 but for average joe it is hard
see past the clamour what Ricky or other top riders brand rides
what they rides is not stock and even if we could ride there bikes we most
likely would not like them for us deadly Husaberg is very good choice
so long VIKING
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 773+
Ely, England
hi mark
a power increase in the 450?
as fry says, the exhaust system will net you 2-3HP. next, you can put larger inlets and exhausts in. 35/30 can be 37/32. dale recommends oversize valve seats at 2mm so i went up 1.5mm and kept the same seats. porting, you can port and fill the head as the ports were made for a 650. jetting, the jetting range is down near 150 all being well but it takes a great deal of care and attention to come down this far.
41mm nets more top end, but a stack nets more bottom again. dale has done it and so have i now. i tested it last weekend and tomorrow is the definitive test.
and that's it really! with the above you're looking at another 6-8HP and that's all you're short of.
you could get drastic and put a 400 (60mm) crank in which will knock it out to 470 and again you could put an even longer stroke crank in as husaberg do have their unique system of larger bores and strokes.
but you gotta want to do all this and you don't really do you? :wink: :wink:
regards
Taffy
a power increase in the 450?
as fry says, the exhaust system will net you 2-3HP. next, you can put larger inlets and exhausts in. 35/30 can be 37/32. dale recommends oversize valve seats at 2mm so i went up 1.5mm and kept the same seats. porting, you can port and fill the head as the ports were made for a 650. jetting, the jetting range is down near 150 all being well but it takes a great deal of care and attention to come down this far.
41mm nets more top end, but a stack nets more bottom again. dale has done it and so have i now. i tested it last weekend and tomorrow is the definitive test.
and that's it really! with the above you're looking at another 6-8HP and that's all you're short of.
you could get drastic and put a 400 (60mm) crank in which will knock it out to 470 and again you could put an even longer stroke crank in as husaberg do have their unique system of larger bores and strokes.
but you gotta want to do all this and you don't really do you? :wink: :wink:
regards
Taffy
Joined Nov 2005
159 Posts | 0+
I will compare the cost of a 496 kit to the valves, slip on and power now for cost. I have tested the 450 a few times and prefer it in the nasty stuff over the 550 but feel it needs just a little more power. I agree that 59 horse is more than any of us working men can use for very long. I think 3-5 more than stock would be fine for me. The events I like are long sprints 60-90min and big horsepower will hurt you in the end. I dream of a 501 that I was able to ride, and wish Husaberg would bring it back. It had a great blend of torque and power for the kind of riding I like.
What brand of slip on works well?
What kind of money will it cost to have the valves done?
Thanks guys,
What brand of slip on works well?
What kind of money will it cost to have the valves done?
Thanks guys,
I agree, more HP does not=better. I rode CR500s for years, the best sand/dune bike I ever had. At the same time it was the worst trail bike I ever had, too abrupt power delivery and too much effort to hang onto in the tight stuff. For motoX you do want a little bit of a hit in the mid range to help boost you over some of the jumps, maybe you don't need more power over all, just a change in delivery. I would think this is done with cam lift/duration/timing, if that is the case than Lineaweaver is your man.
i will believe in a 59 hp KTM when i see it!once i remember them giving a press release about their new 450 sx a few years back and dry weight was listed at below 210 pounds.a major US mag dynoed their 2006 450sx at something like 46 hp.you have to be amazed at approx a 30 % increase in hp.honda crf 450 is sohc and it is a 50 hp motor.dan.
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 773+
Ely, England
i haven't heard a definitive answer on this one but i believe that the '08 cam which is now standard in all husey's is more or less dale's mark 1 cam (or is that mark 2?). i think that you can forget about changing the cams nowadays.
i don't believe for one minute that the KTM puts out 59BHP. i would think 50 at the rear wheel would be tops.
i think the huseys put out abour 42 or so in MX form.
big valves?
i did mine and that in itself wasn't a problem. the problem was the porting.
the valve seats can be cut by the local motor engineers so no probelm there. neither is it fitting the valves - i trust that you would have a go at this or your mechanic matey.
i had to fill the port right up at the entrance and on the bridging nose as well. but i cut the guides shorter by 1cm and re-fitted them. all done at the motor engineers. i had to take metal out around the guide area and to feather the seat into the port. that was all there. no porting is needed near the seats as the thing is again set to be a 650 in this area.
i used devcon to fill the port and then file it back down. it was just like aluminium by the time it was hard. expensive stuff but i have a pot that's 90 full here....
as for the exhaust ports - well i did these as well and used washers that i'
ve had 20 years to judge for diameter and circularity of the porting work. each washer is .5mm bigger than the previous one and it's mounted on a bent peice of threaded rod. this is then fed into the port and a hand held light shined behind it.
the exhaust port needs to be 90-95% the size of the exhaust valve. doing both netted reasonably good gains and i did them seperately so that i could judge the results.
regards
Taffy
i don't believe for one minute that the KTM puts out 59BHP. i would think 50 at the rear wheel would be tops.
i think the huseys put out abour 42 or so in MX form.
big valves?
i did mine and that in itself wasn't a problem. the problem was the porting.
the valve seats can be cut by the local motor engineers so no probelm there. neither is it fitting the valves - i trust that you would have a go at this or your mechanic matey.
i had to fill the port right up at the entrance and on the bridging nose as well. but i cut the guides shorter by 1cm and re-fitted them. all done at the motor engineers. i had to take metal out around the guide area and to feather the seat into the port. that was all there. no porting is needed near the seats as the thing is again set to be a 650 in this area.
i used devcon to fill the port and then file it back down. it was just like aluminium by the time it was hard. expensive stuff but i have a pot that's 90 full here....
as for the exhaust ports - well i did these as well and used washers that i'
ve had 20 years to judge for diameter and circularity of the porting work. each washer is .5mm bigger than the previous one and it's mounted on a bent peice of threaded rod. this is then fed into the port and a hand held light shined behind it.
the exhaust port needs to be 90-95% the size of the exhaust valve. doing both netted reasonably good gains and i did them seperately so that i could judge the results.
regards
Taffy
Joined Jul 2001
3K Posts | 1+
El Sobrante, Ca. 94803
An X2 camshaft and proper tuning will increase peak power a minimum of 10% and smooth out delivery. (IE provide linear delivery as opposed to that of a burst.)
47 RWHP with good manners is realistic and not terribly expensive. The short stroke and "Giant" bore present certain limitations.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Dale
PS
The 08 camshaft has short duration and minimal overlap.
When I catch my breath I will post the specifications I have to date regarding camshaft profiles.
This RR stuff is taking a lot of time. :?
47 RWHP with good manners is realistic and not terribly expensive. The short stroke and "Giant" bore present certain limitations.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Dale
PS
The 08 camshaft has short duration and minimal overlap.
When I catch my breath I will post the specifications I have to date regarding camshaft profiles.
This RR stuff is taking a lot of time. :?
LINEAWEAVER said:
You and your family, Kenny included, are in our thoughts.
Prepping a pro level team is not a hobby.
Call me if you need some help for anything.
I saw that 59hp claim as well and it bids well.
Much like the 17k rpm R6.
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