04 fe450 (Keihin) stalling when it gets hot

Taffy helped me a few years ago to get to the following
http://www.husaberg.org/index.php?full= ... _photo.php

I haven't thiought too much since, but maybe I'll try leaning it off a little. I tend to ride the mid range, 1, 2, 3rd gear single track and its been great. Grunts away from the Jap 450s with riders 40kg lighter than me.

Steve

Taffy said:

no, i shan't flame away...it's a thin line twixt the two but they are seperable. i jusat want to win this debate that's all (LOL!!).

i've gone to 41mm about 5 months ago and it didn't chnage the MJ as i knew it wouldn't. also the 550 would need at the most about 5 less than mine on MJ.

i'd prefer bigV to go through the correct process and if he just takes a simple precaution he'll be ok. we had one scare here and i don't think it was dealt with too well. the rider panicked, admitted to not testing it (said that it was great in the yard, then it was probably crap in the yard) but given that i ran 150MJ on a near identical bike thewn i'm certain he'll enjoy the difference. 160 is real easy on it.

question will be, will he panic? will he try and work it out by doing the hard yards?

my records are littered with
150MJ C3
150MJ C4
150MJ C2

you get there in the end and it's very satisfying to get it right following your hunches.

i would never call my ol mucker JD wrong. it's just that lineaweaver and i have his number and dale has tried his products..... i'm telling you john, it's a good man who can hold a candle to me on jetting.

i still get INVALUABLE help from PMK on K-Talk. i joined the orange side and posted once. PMK said how chuffed he was to have me along as he had always used my jetting. now, anything i'd like to ask, he'll always help as he is a great sussie geek. or guru as we might call him.

that's greatly appreciated and makes it all worthwhile....

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

Very well. I recognize that you can make the "D" series needle work, but please humor me by concurring that the stock DVT needle now shipping in Husabergs is way too lean. If you have to run a needle in the 6th clip just to get the bike to run half-ass, something is amiss. It's probably why the stock AP squirt is three long seconds on the Husaberg too, to try and help the lean needle along. I will admit I have a DTM in my stable of needles that I can make work. I just have come to prefer the thinner "E" needles, as I believe they actually let the main jet do its intended job instead of blocking it off.

I really need to make it to Moab. The trouble with riding a Husaberg is there are no others to compare yours against! Mines the only one around my area.

that's a while ago steve! i first fitted the FCR in around april '03. done a lot of testing since i helped you. i have no reason to believe that more of my settings won't help.

just to let you know that that 165 on the E needle would be a 170 on the D as john would i hope agree. but i'm down to a 145. i haven't gone lower because of all the suspension work i've done but who is to say. some colorado boys asked me if i thought that their DRs should go down to 160 from JDs recommended 165 etc. i said that i was on 155 and it was a rocket. that i was at sea level and they were at 10,000 fett. i said couldn't see why 140 wasn't possible although i only used intuition and not a chart etc.

last i heard they were down to 138s.... they're probably still up the same bloody mountain and haven't come down yet.

all i would say is that that ELN is very rich at idle. and have you noted that you only have a #60 starter jet? so the rich needle straight is making up for the small choke to get you started.

if you should decide to try a P or Q or an R needle (my advice is obviously a Q; EKQ) then you'll need a larger starter jet or you'll never get it going. so EKQ and a #75 or #80 starter jet. take your chances on the MJ but you know my views from above.
thing is, you have an ol' gal now and whereas i'm sure it won't mind the starter jet/needle stuff i don't want to be responsible for the higher heat (and greater power!) of running perhaps 10 lower on the MJ. again, your call.

regards

Taffy

Hi guys,

This is great reading, but I must admit I'm getting lost in all the info. I'm sure I've already said this - I'm a crap off road rider, keep falling, but love coming out. I'm also an inexperienced (but keen to learn) mechanic. Well, that's if an IT office type of guy even qualifies to call himself that. I'm just really glad people like you spare the time to help people like me...

Anyhow, I manged to secure 160 and 165 MJ (it surprised me that according to the manual they put this to the 650cc?), and will try that as soon as I get it. I should be able to detect if I still have the bogging problem, and I hope to have no problems elsewhere. If that's the case I'll be so happy to just ride it .

I go mostly with ex-trials riders on Yamaha Serrows, who keep telling me I'd be so much better off with the same bike. But I like the Berg, and will keep it. I'm 6'5", 92kg and still fairly young at 31, still time to learn some skills. It seems the more I go the easier it gets, and having the back up of the great wealth of knowledge here is better than having a dealership in town.

You're all Husa-Saints as far as I'm concerned!
Amen.

Cheers
V.

Hi Taffy,

I don't want to hijack this thread, but here goes anyway as I guess its related. I put the carb in Christmas 2002 and played with the setup in Jan 03 with your help, a while ago now, along with a new standard cam and roller followers. You had not fitted your FCR at that stage. About 300 hours now since then, Delo 400 every +/- 5hrs. 600 + hours all up now, I guess <> 30,000 km. Lots of trail riding, fire trails, single track and race the occasional MX and Enduro as well.

The jetting works fine with one exception, I've never got it to start effectively with the choke/enrichener. I've tried a full range of jet sizes and all I achieve is a fast idle. Even with a bored out jet it won't kill the motor. Thats why I upped the AP stroke to 1 mm from 0.5 mm to aid cold starts. 10-12 pumps gets a cough. In warm weather its no problem, in winter when its below 0 it can be fiddly. Parking it in the sun for while helps.

I'm going to get an 07 650 in while, just have to sell a share in an inherited house to fund it and I plan to get a Dale kit for it. I'm sort of keeping the 501, selling it to a mate who will store it in my shed.

The jetting I'm using all but eliminates stalls. The previous dellorto used to stall a bit and I was looking for a flywheel upgrade, but the Keihin fixed it. I still may try leaning it out some more, but I really wouldn't mind getting it to start on the choke so I can reduce the AP stroke again. Nevertheless, all who ride it love the throttle response as it is, still I guess that I'll have to have a play, after all shed time is quality time.

Steve

steve

i've corrected the above post. couldn't understand why you hadn't followed me - till i saw i'd written 'need' and not 'have' as is now.

so there you go mate, as easy as ABC:

"all i would say is that that ELN is very rich at idle. and have you noted that you only have a #60 starter jet? so the rich needle straight is making up for the small choke to get you started."

and

"if you should decide to try a P or Q or an R needle (my advice is obviously a Q; EKQ) then you'll need a larger starter jet or you'll never get it going. so EKQ and a #75 or #80 starter jet"

the EKQ is a standard '00 YZ400 needle and the code is 5jg-14916-e1 and the starter jets are as follows:

#75 is 3tj-1494f-17-00 note the nuber 17 in the middle?

well 14 is a #66, 15 = a #70, 16 = a #72, 18 is a #78, 19 is a #80, 20 is a #82 and finally 21 is a #85.

as you may have noted from the doc: first time kickstarts but flooded in 10 = a #80. kick and start after 3, then go to the bog, put helmet on and put ya pecker away oh it's still chugging away nicely on choke and i forgot = #75.

this doesn't just help this is all you need sir. so go see that yamaha dealer NOW!!!!

regards

taffy

......so go see that yamaha dealer NOW!!!!

OK

Steve

07 fe450, (stock jetting lean at sea level) dealer gave me obeks needle in 3rd clip from top, 42 pilot jet, at 1.5 turns. runs great, starts awsome, great power everywhere, never over heats. good gas range. all other settings are stock.

the best you've had is the best you know.....

regards

Taffy

Hi guys,

Though I'd post an update - just finished putting it all back together. Also, I must apologise, I got the needle code wrong in my previous post. This is where I am now.

The jets are: main 165 (had to stick with this as my supplier sent me two 165, instead one 160 and one 165), starting 85 (stock), idling 40, needle position - clip on the 5th from top. The needle is OBDVR (not OBDVT as I posted earlier).

The bike definitely goes better, Taffy's description of "turbo" effect seems very appropriate. I'd say the midrange is a little less "meaty" than before, but the top end is much more. I mean, it spins on the wet road in third, if I "floor" it. I run it for about 30 minutes, giving it full beans. I'd say it was worm enough, and I could not get it to stumble off the throttle as before. I'll go properly off road tomorrow and will post another update.

Some new questions - does the wrong information I gave you about the needle change anything significant? I "lowered" the needle by moving the clip higher to 5th - was it the right thing to do? I seem to have a bit of popping when engine-braking - does my mixture need adjusting (I'm now stock 1.5 turns from fully closed)?

Anyway, I'm happy even the way it is now, so thanks everyone (you know who you are).

Cheers.
V.

The DVR is a couple steps richer than the DVT, so you are fine. It is what Husaberg calls its "closed course" needle. It is still a lean needle though, which may explain the pop on decel, which can be indicative of a lean condition (try an "E" series needle!).

Slightly leaky exhaust headers can cause popping too on decel, so check where they connect to the cylinder and make sure they are sealed with some good high temp silicone.

what kind of ******** sends two 165s????

probably the same one that is advertising a frame right now as 2001 to 2007.

ok bigV, you did the right thing by dropping the needle to c5. your needle is now one step leaner than mine but because you are still VERY rich on the MJ you are basically having to put the stick further in the hole to get a bit less juice in there.

you need that 160 and i would still get a 158 and 155 while i was there. even a 35 PJ as well. if you need to, go to allins performance for your jets - they are the keihin importers for the whole of western europe after all.

unless your jets have the little tilted star logo on them you haven't got keihin jets and then they can be everywhere. lineaweaver doesn't even trust keihin and as for cheap micky mouse made in china he'd be apoplectic if he knew you were cheating.

remember that if your MJ goes down in size your needle will come up (to c6) eventually.

as for the popping - get rid of it a bit on the PS underneath. the popping is due to a rich condition and it causes secondary burning. that's how rich you are.

i've been on 148 and a 35 for 2 years just about and i get no backfiring at all. i've only got to persuade john here - one yank. you wanna be on TT with 30 of the buggers! now that's what i REALLY call pissing in the wind.....

if i race on a D series, why would i want extra power in 5th and 6th when everything i do is in the first two and at best, three gears? the D series murders the E ast low gears and engine speeds. now i know you have a DVR that's fine but you could go both smaller on the choke jet at 70 or 75 and the PJ is too big at a 40. the old 38 would be fine. that's just two changes.

now you judge wether it makes a difference....

trust you closed the APJ off completely?

regards

Taffy

Cheers guys.

John, I'll check the exhaust sealant - it is there (and plenty of it), but the joint of the headers to mid section a bit suspect.

Taffy, the jets have a little star before the number, but no mention where they're made...I'll get the second 165 swapped and get a couple of smaller ones too. PS underneath - this is the mixture, right? Out or in? I assumed out was making it richer?
PJ is the starting jet - right? I have 85, let's get a smaller one too.

As for the APJ - if this is the accelerator pump, no, I haven't done anything to that yet, must look up here how to disable it...

Oh, and I have a new iridium plug as well (NGK, I could not get the Denso easily), waiting to go in. Will do that this morning.

Getting ready to go off road this morning, must be careful today, conference in Paris tomorrow, back home to Czech Republic (where I come from originally) after that, must not break myself like the last time!

Will be posting later today. Thanks.
V.

the pilot jet is a 40 at the moment and it needs to go back to a 38 and i would consider the 35 even.

the choke jet/starter jet is the #85 you have. i run 75/80 and recommend the 75 for a trail rider and R needle. you have the yamaha code further up this thread that i gave to steve.

the PS underneath is there to be tested, as said, with little snap wheelie tests when warm. 1/2 turn either way will give the best response.

the accelerator pump jet should be deactivated as part of your tuning. there are various articles on it. your carb has the BK mod and the old carb has the Taff mod. please stop the APJ working when you have the time.

regards

taffy

Cheers Taffy,
Looking up the BK mod now, will try to do it this morning, if not too time consuming.

V.

Evening gents (GMT),

Another update. This morning, I removed the carb again (getting really good at it now :0)), and with sinking heart I took my drill at it. I did the BK mod (not with spring-loaded bolt, but bolt and nut to keep in place). I screwed it in as far as just touching underneath the AP actuator, so that it would not move is I open the throttle. I think this is correct, I didn't mess around with the timing screw. Tested it before closing the cover, all operated fine.

Also changed the plug for the iridium one. Out for a spin. It now needs the choke for longer, and as it cools down (for 30 mins or more), it starts better with the choke (first touch with, few attempts without). It was quite cold this morning, though.
Until it warms up, it hesitates a little, once fully warm, all is OK. I guess that's how it supposed to be, perhaps I'm just used to it being very rich.
When I really heated it up, it still hesitated a touch, much less though and not enough to stall. I've set my idle a little higher, and it pretty much went away all together.
I want to experiment with the mixture screw a bit, I gave it another 1/2 out this morning, so will try the other way next.

So, overall much better, and never stalled once. But I think it can still be better, once I get the other jets to try.

Cheers
V.

BigV

raise the needle one clip to remove hesitation. this will definately richen the bike in the mid revs but as to whether it'll be too rich - only you will know from testing.

if you get a leaner MJ this time fit it (160?) and definately raise the needle on a the second test. you WILL try only one thing at a time won't you?

can we take it then that the MJ drop is a given as you didn't mention it?

regards

Taffy

Hi Taffy,

The jet I have now fitted is 165 (sorry, I should have mentioned it). I will return the other 165 and ask for 160.
I didn't make myself clear about this hesitation - "When I really heated it up, it still hesitated a touch, much less though and not enough to stall. I've set my idle a little higher, and it pretty much went away all together" - what I mean here is that the bogging reappeared (on a much lesser scale) when I really heated it up (unlike the slight hesitation when cold).Am I still rich here?

What about the pilot - I was thinking about getting a smaller one of them too (38 )? I don't expect I'll be able to go out before next weekend - I should have the 160 then. But as you say, I should not introduce too many things at the same time.

Sorry everyone, to drag on with this for so long. But I feel I'm getting somewhere...

Thanks
V.

lift the needle. the hesitation will be gone. bigV, i've explained why above. i've also explained what will happen...etc

good luck

Taffy

No worries, I'll lift the needle by moving the clip to C6, and re-test. When I get the 160 MJ, I'll fit it and lift the needle again to C7. Take it from there.

Cheers
V.