04-08 Mounting The Timing Chain

husabutt · Mar 23, 2015

What is the best way to mount the timing chain on 04-08 models?

The workshop manual has a procedure but it is with the clutch basket removed.

I would like to leave clutch in.

The head has been removed and reinstalled.

I can get everything to line up O.K., TDC, balancer to primary, cam etc.

jmscrttndn · Mar 23, 2015

Not to hijack, but I have a replacement chain (OEM) and no tool to rivet it with. Taking a hammer to it isn't an option since the only thing supporting the chain would be the timing/cam gear. Suggestions?

To answer the above, attach one link to the old chain and feed it through that way. Coat hanger style too!

Reading it again, which would the clutch basket need to be removed?

husabutt · Mar 23, 2015

jmscrttndn said:
To answer the above, attach one link to the old chain and feed it through that way. Coat hanger style too!

Reading it again, which would the clutch basket need to be removed?

The chain has already been removed completely. The clutch basket would need to be removed for access. Per the workshop manual you would attach the chain together right underneath the clutch.

jmscrttndn · Mar 23, 2015

husabutt said:
The chain has already been removed completely. The clutch basket would need to be removed for access. Per the workshop manual you would attach the chain together right underneath the clutch.

Sorry, I am lookign at photos of my left side and cannot see why the clutch basket would need to be removed. I will study the manual a bit when I get home. A coat hanger can be fed from the top (head) down the rear cam guide/path... hook the chain on there and attach the master link at the cam gear after you make sure everything lines up gearing-wise.

husabutt · Mar 23, 2015

jmscrttndn said:
A coat hanger can be fed from the top (head) down the rear cam guide/path... hook the chain on there and attach the master link at the cam gear after you make sure everything lines up gearing-wise.

That's exactly the kind of input I am looking for. "Using a coat hanger down the rear guide path to pull the chain up".

The workshop manual is based upon completely reassembling the engine after teardown.

I just started to play with the timing chain last night and it was getting late. When I first put the chain down the front guide path I was not able to get it to go around the rear balancer gear at all. It would just bunch up and then drop down.

husabutt · Mar 23, 2015

Here is what I was looking at:

Kayeffess · Mar 23, 2015

I just went and had a look at mine ... It is lying on its side with the side cover off. I don't thing you can slip a chain by the sprocket to feed it in. Things just look too tight. If I recall correctly, I had to pull the clutch basket, install the chain and re time the engine.

jmscrttndn · Mar 23, 2015

Kayeffess said:
I just went and had a look at mine ... It is lying on its side with the side cover off. I don't thing you can slip a chain by the sprocket to feed it in. Things just look too tight. If I recall correctly, I had to pull the clutch basket, install the chain and re time the engine.

Darn... I guess the method I thought of somehow involved using the old chain. Sorry mate. If you are pulling the clutch basket, look for the two half moon parts to see if they are worn as per here:

https://youtu.be/S4izrwR2zg8?t=4m52s

Also, see here:
https://youtu.be/KqNem4PbZH8?t=6m48s

Kayeffess · Mar 23, 2015

Yeah, with the old chain in place , it is easy. You just break it, attach the new one to the old one and pull it through.

ned37 · Mar 23, 2015

only other way is to pull the idler / lower cam gear. personally, i think it's easier to pull the clutch. just mark the gears like in the pic then realign after back together.

husabutt · Mar 23, 2015

Once you remove the clutch the balancer gear is free to move and come out of alignment with the primary (crankshaft gear).

There is no longer anything to hold it in place.

Since the cam is timed off of the balancer, instead of the crank, it is imperative that the dot (mark) on the balancer gear aligns perfectly between the two dots on primary gear while the cam is being positioned for the timing chain?

It seems to me that you MUST use the crank locking bolt to hold the crank at TDC. Then you attach the cam chain while the cam lobes are up (or down) and the balancer gear is in the correct dot alignment position.

Its bad enough that when timing a pre 2001 you must worry about maintaining TDC (no crank locking bolt) and hoping that you have eyeballed the cam into the correct position. Now on this engine you also add maintaining the alignment of the primary pinion gear and balancer gear into the mix but you do have the crank locking bolt which hopefully locks at true TDC.

I don't have the crank locking bolt but I am thinking that I should get one. Can I just use a longer bolt or is the special one really necessary?

Is there a trick to doing this? It looks like it will be difficult to keep the balancer gear and the cam in alignment when attaching the chain.

Without the crank locking bolt is this an impossible task?

Am I missing something?

Taffy · Mar 24, 2015

feed the chain down the power side until it is an inch past the bottom sprocket

lay the bike over beyond flat slightly - like 10 degrees past flat

tuck the chain onto the bottom sprocket

turn the primary gear with a 30mm spanner flicking the nose of the chain forwards and out with a screwdriver

at a certain point you can come in from the top of the block with a magnet or grab claw

regards

Taffy

jmscrttndn · Mar 24, 2015

To make your own bolt, buy a Stainless Steel M8x1.25 25mm long Socket Head Cap screw (fully threaded). Cut to approx 23mm and grind the tip at 45deg until the diameter of the tip is approx 4mm.

I like photos, but could not find a good one to help describe. The tip should be almost like this, but leave some meat on the end instead of going to a sharp tip:
http://www.norelem.fr/xs_db/BILD_DB/0/www/750/07166.jpg

husabutt said:
I don't have the crank locking bolt but I am thinking that I should get one. Can I just use a longer bolt or is the special one really necessary?

Is there a trick to doing this? It looks like it will be difficult to keep the balancer gear and the cam in alignment when attaching the chain.

husabutt · Mar 24, 2015

Taffy said:
feed the chain down the power side until it is an inch past the bottom sprocket

lay the bike over beyond flat slightly - like 10 degrees past flat

tuck the chain onto the bottom sprocket

turn the primary gear with a 30mm spanner flicking the nose of the chain forwards and out with a screwdriver

at a certain point you can come in from the top of the block with a magnet or grab claw

regards

Taffy

Which side is the power side? The cam chain cavity nearest the front of the bike?

As you state to turn the primary gear to facilitate catching the chain with the balancer sprocket you must mean to do this with the clutch installed?

Taffy · Mar 24, 2015

husabutt said:
Which side is the power side? The cam chain cavity nearest the front of the bike?

As you state to turn the primary gear to facilitate catching the chain with the balancer sprocket you must mean to do this with the clutch installed?

power side = tension side = the front!

clutch installed yup! we do all our engines like this. we build up the left and then drop the chain in -WAF nightmare if you don't!

my flexy grab claw now knows what I want without having to be instructed!

Taffy

worstinfinland · Mar 24, 2015

I suppose it's a breeze to install it with clutch installed if you have the engine on the table though.

Taffy · Mar 24, 2015

worstinfinland said:
I suppose it's a breeze to install it with clutch installed if you have the engine on the table though.

it's a breeze on its side! where's the fuel tank? what other fluids can escape?

I just get a bloody bad back everytime that's the trouble!

donchya just love it when people doubt you sooooo much - it proves how big the gap is.

Taffy

worstinfinland · Mar 24, 2015

I would love if you'd put more effort in making your posts easier to comprehend.

husabutt · Mar 24, 2015

Taffy said:
power side = tension side = the front!

clutch installed yup! we do all our engines like this. we build up the left and then drop the chain in -WAF nightmare if you don't!

my flexy grab claw now knows what I want without having to be instructed!

Taffy

Would you recommend using the dead stop method of finding TDC or is the engine lock up tool / bolt right on the money?

jmscrttndn · Mar 24, 2015

husabutt said:
Would you recommend using the dead stop method of finding TDC or is the engine lock up tool / bolt right on the money?

Again, my $0.02. Pull the spark plug, put a plastic drinking straw o nthe cylinder, find TDC (and look through the valve windows to ensure the cams are pointed in the correct direction, and therefore you have found the correct TDC of the 4T). Simultaneously, look thru the bolt stop hole with a flashlight and look for the mark in the crankshaft...

And thrid failsafe, line up the mark on the flywheel with the pickup (the manual has a photo of this somehwere, I think in the engine disassembly section).

These three thrings combined will help you be sure you are at TDC... then install the engine stopper bolt to be safe. . . or have a friend hold onto the flywheel nut with a wrench to ensure that engine doesn't move...

This is what I do for valve adjustments.

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