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DIY Tubeless

bushmechanic

bushmechanic

Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
The mad NAHA style hillclimb bikes almost all use 6-8 stainless self tappers each side through the rim into the tyre bead as rimlocks.

Ive seen this setup firsthand handle 160RWHP driving 16 and 19 paddle scat track dominator tyres with bolts in deep sand.

Im using this idea on my rear wheel without a tube. early days yet but it seem to work well.

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the tricky bit is to get the bead to seat, I used 2 types of screws 1 long but small diameter set to reach down into the bead and pull it up while puming air in then once seated remove these screws and replace with bigger diameter ones, 8 per side

I put 200ml of that green tyre slime in with 80psi, it came out everywhere for a while while I spun the tyre. lost 10psi overnight, more spinning and most of the leaks stopped. Its a new tyre with the bead in good condition, haven't added bolts to the paddles yet.

the rimlock and valve hole I tapped to take the thread on the removable shrader valves that come in tractor tyre tubes. the screws in these pics are a bit small, the bigger ones grab the bead better.

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it does leak a bit, about 2 psi/day I'm running 20Psi in these paddles. will update after I get some more time on it
 

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I like your thinking, push bike riders have been glueing their tyres to their rims for years (clinchers), maybe a glue or silastic on the bead used with slime would be a winner?
 
RE: Re: DIY Tubeless

yeah something like that should be better the tyre slime is very good at sealing rubber/rubber but not so good metal/rubber

still, the more I ride it the better it seals off. can't beileve it works at all really :D
 
With the beads secured with screws limping home should be safer if you do get a puncture, keeping the beads in place. The slime would seal many punctures as they occur. I'd not be surprised if your DIY tubeless is more reliable than using a conventional inner tube and rim locks. When it comes to inertia and acceleration, whatever weight is saved in the wheels is worth a lot, tyres have not only to accelerate laterally but also rotationally and they are very large compared to most other parts of the motorcycle. You do not need to use rim locks any longer do you?, another weight saving. Those self tappers together do not even look as heavy as one rim lock. Once upon a time when i was fit and strong I had a racing bicycle that used tube tyres, non clinching tyres, they were extremely light but were scary if you did not glue them in place, it could have been common rubber glue or some special stuff but it sure looked and smelled like ordinary rubber glue, anyway, it should help with the sealing. Have you done anything special to make the spoke nippulae seal?
Regards.
 
nothing special at all for the spokes, might need to do something

hot day yesterday and no riding the tyre is flat overnight, it only seems to work if you spin it regulary

there is a rubber glue called A and B rubber compound made by tip top the german company making the good tyre patches,

there is a sikaflex glue for installing car windscreens that remains semi set, a gooey flexible mess, sounds good.

also some supaglues with rubber fillers but I thinkj they are too brittle.
the mountain bikers make a special mix of slime with soluable latex, detergent, water, slime and some boiled goldfish tails

light tube + rimlock is about 700gm the slime is 200gm and the screws less than 50.

saving is 450gm lighter than a Tubliss or light tube and about 2kg over a HD tube w 2 rimlocks

the reason I tried it is when you put bolts through the paddles to stop them being ripped off at the base,
the bolts can squash the tube,
the hilclimbers put big rubber patches over the inside of the bolt heads but in time the tube still gets hammered by
the squashing if you hit a rock exactly on a paddle for instance.

it works OK with a 3.5 inch wide rim as there is more room for the bolts but on my 2.15 ich rim the tube
gets squashed between the inner surface of the tyre and the the bolts
 
I like where this is heading, you will probably find the air is leaking out via the spokes. That sikaflex stuff or silastic would work great for sealing the spokes i think
 
checked in a water trough the leaks are from the bead near the screws, spokes are fine

the screws thread through the rim and the tyre bead so you can't tighten them in the bead to pull the tyre right out they tighten in the rim.

if they don't tighten in the rim they come loose, might need to drill out the holes a bit and glue the screws in.

as long as I ride every day it stays up looses about 0.5psi/ day now.

I'd drill 10 holes/side next time to better hold the bead, it hasn't come loose but for the sake of 2 extra holes/screws it'd look more secure.

next gotta test with bolts through the paddles.
 
I'm keen to try something like this when i'm due for a new tire. Not overly keen to drill holes in my shiny blue berg rims so i might try to find a spare rim to try it on.
going to try using pushbike tire glue on the bead, no tube, tubeless valve, small amount of slime and possibly seal around the spokes with some silastic
 
no tube or rimlock

the screws are plenty enough for 160HP, no rimlock will handle that
the problem with the screws is that its tricky to stop them from going into the tube if you're using one,

with no tube, the screws can go right through the bead no problems and no rimlock needed.

the spokes don't leak, they did for a while some even through the spoke thread/ nipple thread but soon stopped.
 
Maybe with the bicycle tyre glue or common rubber glue on the beads the screws are not needed?, provided you let it dry well before use. Or do that and drill the holes and THEN screw it. The unsettling Sikaflex sounds good for the spokes, better self healing probably than bathroom caulk. Then add the snot to that. I like the concept.
The majority of my punctures have been pinch holes on the inner tube, from hitting rock edges or roots hard.
Can't help but getting the feeling that the inner tube is there for you to have something to get punctures in. Regards.
 
Hey Bushy I run tubeless tyres on my mountain bike and they seal very well with the Stan's tubeless sealant. But that stuff cost about $60 a litre. Alternately I received an email from a friend who says,
"I followed up with the guys in the rideshop yesterday. They purchase Moulding Latex from Clark Rubber ($40/L) and mix it 3 part water to 1 part Latex, and use this inside singles and MTB tyres. They said it's practically the same as Stan's but a lot cheaper and better performing. They out about 30-45ml of this mixture in a single. Obviously a bit more in the MTB Tyres."
So maybe you could try that.
 
In the seventies I was using screws, rubber cement and a bush on sealant on the spokes to seal up the tire for a tubless setup
I tried from 12 small sized screws to 8 larger sized screws per side with the rubber cement, ground the sharp end off the screw so
it went into the tire and got a good bite, with 12lbs pressure the tire would slip on the rim.The screws would chew up the bead of the tire.
Chiseled the rim inside edges, tire still slip on a moto-x track,
I had three cracks from the outside edge to the screw hole on the front rim and cracks on the back (don't remember how many cracks on the back rim)
A Tubless tire is a good way to go less heat, better acceleration, better foot print on the dirt and less weight.
Know days I use the TUbliss system, www.nuetech.com works great. I run the TUbliss system in my 2010 570 and YZ250 no tire slip even with 8lbs pressure
just follow the direction carefully! easy to install
have a great ride
haskell in Idaho
 
I'd use the tubliss system if it was not so expensive.
There is also the other brand, t-lock, it seems simpler yet, but the needle a bit flimsy. But maybe is it more affordable?
t-lock instruction
t-lock video
http://nitotec.com/

And at
http://www.trelleborgtyres.co.uk/ a complete kit for front and aft, needle, needle holder and bushings, slime and all is less than one single BIB mousse... Spare tube for the t-lock system is available too @£10.50...

Tubliss is around the same price as the BIBs.

Makes me wonder if a suitable BMX tyre would not do the same job?

Regards
 
I would use the tubliss too if I did not have bolts in the paddles, I think the bolts would destroy the tubliss.

the guy with the hillclimb bike doesn't have the problems haskell described with the screws slipping or the rim cracking, 200 kg bike 160 RWHP he does some MX

it didn't work fisrt time though; the screws have to be the right size and shape, threaded into the rim,
the holes on the tyre bead need to be pre drilled and supa glue with rubber filler used on the thread in the rubber, if its tight in the rim and in the rubber it should work. if the holes in the tyre bead are not pre drilled the screw can chew out the rubber without biting or not thread in properly so it tightens in the rim not the tyre.

I'm yet to have any issues either but we'll see :D
 
the latex works very well but I used a thicker mix than the mountainbike guys, 25% soluable latex rest just water, about 200 ml for the rear tyre

the best screws to pull the bead out are bugle head "TEK" screws

I use 5mm stainless steel self tappers to do the final job, they are tightish in the rim 4.5mm diam holes. they don't come loose and haven't cracked a rim yet.

the slime I was using is an australian companys stuff, green and called liquid patch it is very very good, contains lots of long cotton fibres and rubber bits.

it is very corrosive though and is eating the rim so be much better if you can get it to work with just latex. because of the bolts in the paddles I had to use some slime but for normal setups you don't need any. i'll paint the rim with some epoxy to keep the glycol from eating it.

I have some cotton fibres and some milled carbon so will try putting some of that into the latex. the latex is very good at coating the insides and making a good seal but not so good a sealing a big hole under pressure.

the spokes do not need any special sealant or tape.
 
better update this before anyone loses an eye

I've found it to work very well on paddle tyres where I run 15-20 PSi

the problem is with less than 15psi and a heap of horsepower the tyre jumps off the rim a bit under acceleration and that lets out some air then a little more then it all goes downhill.

the rim hasn't cracked and the screws work fine but It needs 15 psi with the high power 700cc to work.

a note on the tubliss system, if you search KTMtalk now there are some guys who have DNF'ed because a similar thing happens with the tubliss setup with low psi and mud/rocks/roots.
 
bushmechanic said:
a note on the tubliss system, if you search KTMtalk now there are some guys who have DNF'ed because a similar thing happens with the tubliss setup with low psi and mud/rocks/roots.
Click to expand...
Neutech recommends running Slime.
 
the fast guys can still wreak the tubliss and then smash their rims with slime I don't know the specifics or why they break, Javier of Trailtricks suspension fame is one of the guys who has DNFed with the tubliss

the reason I will not buy Tubliss is that it is heavier than a standard duty tube and a berg rimlock. if you add slime its heaver still and I have found that slime corrodes the alloy quite a lot.
 

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