At a race yesterday I went 48 miles and used up a full tank + 1 gallon from a pit stop and still ran out of gas 1/4 mile from the finish. I used to get about 40 miles per tank (2.2 gallon), but yesterday I only got 47.75 miles out of 3.2 gallons. I am getting no errors on the FI light, but something is wrong. I pulled the plug and it it is very dark, nearly solid black. Could it be a faulty sensor? The bike runs fine.
How dirty was the air filter?
Anything restricting the Exhaust? Dings in the Exhaust? The spark arrester in the Exhaust clogged?
Did the bike feel on song or was it down on power?
Change the plug anyway it’s cheap
I wonder if Dealers have a diagnostic tool that plugs into the EFI Computer and can display the sensors outputs so you can see what the readings are? There are only a few key sensors in an EFI system:
Air Temp (Diagnostic tool should show a value in Degrees C or F)
Coolant Temp (Diagnostic tool should show a value in Degrees C or F)
MAP (Diagnostic tool should show a value in KPa or PSI)
Throttle Position sensor (Diagnostic tool should show a value in percentage of throttle opening)
Oxygen Sensor (Hard to check this one for accuracy unless it is completely dead, best to just replace if you think faulty)
There may be an Atmospheric Sensor too. Some EFI systems use the MAP sensor to check Atmospheric pressure just before the engine starts turning over. Works out if you are at Sea Level or way up in a mountain where the air is thin
If the Coolant Temp Sensor was faulty and indicated the engine was cold it would make the bike run richer and use more fuel. Or if the wire had fallen off the Coolant Temp Sensor, but I am not sure if this would make the EFI Computer think the bike was cold, or hot, or if the EFI Computer would just turn the fault light on.
There should be a Fuel Pressure regulator in the fuel system somewhere. If that is faulty and supplying more pressure the bike will run rich. This needs to be checked with a Fuel Pressure Gauge (Old School). Some Fuel Pressure regulators have a little air hose that runs back to intake manifold, if this hose is split the regulator will see no vacuum and think you have the throttle wide open and supply more fuel pressure. This will result in more fuel used, but I think you would notice the bike a little off song if this was the case.
Any rubber boots in the intake system that may be split?
Was it a cold day? If the coolant thermostat was faulty and stuck open and the engine was running cold, the Computer would compensate and run the bike richer.
Chassis Dyno and Exhaust Gas Analyser would check the Air Fuel Ratio in the exhaust to tell you if it is running rich. I have used Innovate LC1 and Autronic Exhaust Gas Analysers with great successes in Cars and Boats but never a bike.
I have only drooled over a Fuel Injected Husaberg in the shop, so have no idea about their EFI system. I have wired up a few Autronic EFI Systems in Cards and Boats
Anything restricting the Exhaust? Dings in the Exhaust? The spark arrester in the Exhaust clogged?
Did the bike feel on song or was it down on power?
Change the plug anyway it’s cheap
I wonder if Dealers have a diagnostic tool that plugs into the EFI Computer and can display the sensors outputs so you can see what the readings are? There are only a few key sensors in an EFI system:
Air Temp (Diagnostic tool should show a value in Degrees C or F)
Coolant Temp (Diagnostic tool should show a value in Degrees C or F)
MAP (Diagnostic tool should show a value in KPa or PSI)
Throttle Position sensor (Diagnostic tool should show a value in percentage of throttle opening)
Oxygen Sensor (Hard to check this one for accuracy unless it is completely dead, best to just replace if you think faulty)
There may be an Atmospheric Sensor too. Some EFI systems use the MAP sensor to check Atmospheric pressure just before the engine starts turning over. Works out if you are at Sea Level or way up in a mountain where the air is thin
If the Coolant Temp Sensor was faulty and indicated the engine was cold it would make the bike run richer and use more fuel. Or if the wire had fallen off the Coolant Temp Sensor, but I am not sure if this would make the EFI Computer think the bike was cold, or hot, or if the EFI Computer would just turn the fault light on.
There should be a Fuel Pressure regulator in the fuel system somewhere. If that is faulty and supplying more pressure the bike will run rich. This needs to be checked with a Fuel Pressure Gauge (Old School). Some Fuel Pressure regulators have a little air hose that runs back to intake manifold, if this hose is split the regulator will see no vacuum and think you have the throttle wide open and supply more fuel pressure. This will result in more fuel used, but I think you would notice the bike a little off song if this was the case.
Any rubber boots in the intake system that may be split?
Was it a cold day? If the coolant thermostat was faulty and stuck open and the engine was running cold, the Computer would compensate and run the bike richer.
Chassis Dyno and Exhaust Gas Analyser would check the Air Fuel Ratio in the exhaust to tell you if it is running rich. I have used Innovate LC1 and Autronic Exhaust Gas Analysers with great successes in Cars and Boats but never a bike.
I have only drooled over a Fuel Injected Husaberg in the shop, so have no idea about their EFI system. I have wired up a few Autronic EFI Systems in Cards and Boats
The race was very hilly, 2nd-4th gear terrain, not very tight. I race in the A-level classes (usually top-5 in my class). Others of similar speed (including me) have been getting about 40 miles per tank. The bike has 70 hours on it. Recently it started smoking at startup and at high-rpm, which looked like oil smoke (white with a little bit of blue tint). I tore the engine down and replaced the cylinder/piston/rings/valve seals because of a cylinder gouge from an earlier incident. After reassembling the smoking problem was still present. Around the same time I noticed the smoking problem I also noticed increased fuel consumption. I have noticed no loss of oil. I checked the plug after the race and it is nearly black, much more so than it looks from the picture.
Fresh air filter, no restrictions in exhaust, no dents in header or anywhere. It had a brand-new plug in it. It felt fine power-wise but did seem to stall a little easier than normal.
Re: '09 FE450 high fuel consumption
Definitely not right. I am assuming its US gallons so that equates to less than 4 miles per litre.
Mine has 70 hours on it and racing flat out i tend to get at least 6 miles per litre or 48-50 miles per tank. Thats on aggressive mapping , you may get slightly less on a softer mapping.
If the bike is running ok, i would be checking things like a fuel leak somewhere, maybe thro the pump plate screws into the plastic or connection on fuel hoses.
Have you checked that the idle screw is pushed in ?
littlerm said:
Definitely not right. I am assuming its US gallons so that equates to less than 4 miles per litre.
Mine has 70 hours on it and racing flat out i tend to get at least 6 miles per litre or 48-50 miles per tank. Thats on aggressive mapping , you may get slightly less on a softer mapping.
If the bike is running ok, i would be checking things like a fuel leak somewhere, maybe thro the pump plate screws into the plastic or connection on fuel hoses.
Have you checked that the idle screw is pushed in ?
RE: Re:
Yep, idle knob is pushed in, no leaks anywhere. I will pull the coolant temp sensor tonight and test it.
Yep, idle knob is pushed in, no leaks anywhere. I will pull the coolant temp sensor tonight and test it.
RE: Re:
I've read on here before about others getting 50 miles per tank, but I've never gotten close to it. I usually plan on 35 -38 per tank before pitting. Are you sure you got all of the extra gallon? I race a 09 450 and regularly compete with two others on the same bike (you know what I mean) and none of us will try to push 40 miles. I hope you find more mpg's and let us all know (or at least me).
I've also assumed that the performance setting was one of the reasons for the low mileage. Does standard setting get worse mileage?
I've read on here before about others getting 50 miles per tank, but I've never gotten close to it. I usually plan on 35 -38 per tank before pitting. Are you sure you got all of the extra gallon? I race a 09 450 and regularly compete with two others on the same bike (you know what I mean) and none of us will try to push 40 miles. I hope you find more mpg's and let us all know (or at least me).
I've also assumed that the performance setting was one of the reasons for the low mileage. Does standard setting get worse mileage?
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
RE: Re:
probably not possible but you need to fool the bike in to leaning it off a little.
things that lean a bike off are:
it thinks it is very warm
it thinks it's not under load when it really is
it thinks the tailpipe is closed but it's really open
maybe a sensor is damaged?
regards
Taffy
just ideas.
probably not possible but you need to fool the bike in to leaning it off a little.
things that lean a bike off are:
it thinks it is very warm
it thinks it's not under load when it really is
it thinks the tailpipe is closed but it's really open
maybe a sensor is damaged?
regards
Taffy
just ideas.
I tested the coolant temperature sensor and air intake sensor and they appear to be working fine. When I pulled the EFI body away from the head I noticed what I thought was excessive fuel. I did notice the throttle position sensor was rotated all the way counter-clockwise, giving a resistance of around 1500 ohms at closed throttle. When I rotated it the other direction I was getting a resistance of around 750 ohms at closed throttle. I understand how a TPS works on a carbureted bike, but is it different on an EFI system? It may be telling the EFI system that the throttle is open more than it really is, causing it to run rich. Will a mis-adjusted TPS sensor cause an EFI bike to run rich or lean?
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am happy to announce that some partners and I are currently in the process of pre production testing of a complete subframe fuel tank that will hold apporximately 1 gallon of fuel.
This tank will be a complete unit, that is made to be a gas tank and will be a direct bolt on unit to replace your stock sub frame. All hardware will be included to connect your new subframe tank to the stock main tank. The tank will retail for between $350-400.
I am hopeful that within a couple of weeks, the final details will be ironed out and we will be able to start taking pre orders.
I am happy to announce that some partners and I are currently in the process of pre production testing of a complete subframe fuel tank that will hold apporximately 1 gallon of fuel.
This tank will be a complete unit, that is made to be a gas tank and will be a direct bolt on unit to replace your stock sub frame. All hardware will be included to connect your new subframe tank to the stock main tank. The tank will retail for between $350-400.
I am hopeful that within a couple of weeks, the final details will be ironed out and we will be able to start taking pre orders.
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
little ermm - where are you from? why not put it in your signature?
ok, here is a thread on the old model which i can't believe is a long way off yours. DaleO has given me an '09 manual but i get lazy....
i never did find out what the second reading was, least i remember asking for it in my sleep....
i don't know whether sparks ever did finish that one off?
twist my arm and i may have a look for it but i was bloody blind the last time!
regards
Taffy
ok, here is a thread on the old model which i can't believe is a long way off yours. DaleO has given me an '09 manual but i get lazy....
i never did find out what the second reading was, least i remember asking for it in my sleep....
i don't know whether sparks ever did finish that one off?
twist my arm and i may have a look for it but i was bloody blind the last time!
regards
Taffy
I cannot find how to set the TPS sensor, it is not in the service manual. I can tell where it used to be set so I put it there, and now the plug looks normal (tan). I think the problem is solved, I just need to double-check the TPS position. I found this formula, used on Honda CRF450's:
Blue and black resistance = 4-6k ohms
A*(.13~.15) = B
A = Blue and black wire terminals resistance
B = TPS resistance at idle speed
Ex.
If the Blue and Black wire terminals resistance is 5k ohms, then the TPS resistance at idle speed is:
5k ohms * (.13~.15) = 650~750 ohms
Blue and black resistance = 4-6k ohms
A*(.13~.15) = B
A = Blue and black wire terminals resistance
B = TPS resistance at idle speed
Ex.
If the Blue and Black wire terminals resistance is 5k ohms, then the TPS resistance at idle speed is:
5k ohms * (.13~.15) = 650~750 ohms
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
why not experiment with it? over the years the factory have been found to make some profound mistakes and you should never take anything they do as 'gospel'. the bikes are known foir their poor fuel consumption so something somewhere gives on them.
regards
Taffy
regards
Taffy
littlermm , are you going to the WP hare Scramble? I can bring my XC1 Tool and lap top.
Mark @ SOS
Mark @ SOS
Re: RE: Re:
There is something not right with your bike if that is the mileage you are getting cosisitently. I have 120 or so hours on my 09 FE450, and I can count on 50+ miles per tank. In fact, once I added the map switch and run in the aggressive setting, I get better than that. Have NEVER run it dry. I am an aggressive rider/racer, and I do like to twist the throttle.
BRN2RDE
piggd said:
There is something not right with your bike if that is the mileage you are getting cosisitently. I have 120 or so hours on my 09 FE450, and I can count on 50+ miles per tank. In fact, once I added the map switch and run in the aggressive setting, I get better than that. Have NEVER run it dry. I am an aggressive rider/racer, and I do like to twist the throttle.
BRN2RDE
Re: '09 FE450 high fuel consumption
I thought I had posted a resolution on here, but I guess I forgot. After setting the TPS back to the correct position the bike has been back to normal. I get about 40+ miles per tank at race pace and the plug is nice and tan again. And with the latest remap this bike runs perfect, no backfiring, no stalls, it's great!
I thought I had posted a resolution on here, but I guess I forgot. After setting the TPS back to the correct position the bike has been back to normal. I get about 40+ miles per tank at race pace and the plug is nice and tan again. And with the latest remap this bike runs perfect, no backfiring, no stalls, it's great!
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