How SHOULD the 09 Bergs look like?

Really a must? KTM doesn´t have EFI on their 09 EXC-models (with totally new SOHC-engines), yamaha doesn´t have, Kawasaki doesn´t have i, Honda- don´t know yet, Beta - no way,Vertemati - no way


and yet ktm have designed there new engines to be fitted with efi in the future!
suzuki have efi. do you really thing the other jap bikes will not have it within 2 yrs?
husqvarna are running it on there '08 bikes.
and as far as every sherco i've seen the efi is the one bit of the electrics they don't complain about.
gasgas don't know.
beta - run the old ktm engines
vertemati - are they still made?

face facts. efi is the future, we might as well get on with it.

face facts. efi is the future, we might as well get on with it

Click to expand...

Cypher, you´re right: EFI is the future, there´s no doubt about this.
And, "clean" bikes are better than "stinking" ones...
Neverless, I want to give all of you some facts(about the EU, but it´s more or less the same all over the world)
Offoad bikes can´t become registered in full power-versions, they are sold in detuned "healthy & wealthy" and silent spec -
so what is the customer doing?
He´s (or the dealer for him) is taking away all the "power-brakers"; so he uses his bike in full spec-> this means: dirty and loud
the cost/price for this deregulation is more or less peanuts : jets, needle,a stop in the carb and maybe some deflectionmaterial in the exhaust

Ok, now let´s jump to street-bikes and the latest Emission-regulations (EU): EURO3-> (started per June 1.st 2007)
GSX-R 1000 plus 12 kg
ZX-6 R plus 9 kg
YZF-R1 plus 6kg
You want me to continue this list?

Fact is also, that these bikes are "s***" to ride-> way to lean low down, a mellow midrange and nothing on top-end...
I know, a 1000ccm sports-bike is ballistic, but please read to the end.
Story goes onoor customer is complaning at dealer, that he liked his "old "bike more;
Dealers knows the solution: Powercommander (USB), different exhaust(did I mention how bice the new, big ones do look?) and some hours on the dyno
And believe me, if not dynoed, the bike won´t work proberly.
Customer is happy now, but Cost in comparison to carbs? (and again: "dirty" engine)

it´s great for Sherco (the evironment and us) when their EFI is working, but as I said: bikes are used in open spec -> dirty...
One more concern: Have some friends with Aprilias RXV´s, and as long as the engines are running, they are no bad bikes at all.
But actually they spend more time at the dealer with software-updates than rideing!

And to be honest, when going for a ride I have very limited tools with me,
and I will never(EVER) take a lap-top with me to restart my bike somewhere in the middle on nowhere

Maybe I´m oldfashioned about the carbs, but regarding this matter: Never change a winning team

true all valid arguements and i do agree.
have heard the same myself about the aprillias, also having looked at them in the shop i'd be afraid of dropping one off rd.
at the end of the day were unlikely to influence what is put in production, what ever it is we'll still ride it and have fun.

Gokai134 said:

... spend more time at the dealer with software-updates than rideing!

... I will never(EVER) take a lap-top with me to restart my bike somewhere in the middle on nowhere

Maybe I´m oldfashioned about the carbs, but regarding this matter: Never change a winning team

Click to expand...

Just to let ya know... We are VERY close to being able to have bike software updated when it enters the garage (that is, if you've entered this millenium and have a wireless connection at home).

Also, it is REALLY easy to adapt the "dashboard" with enough logic to tell you why your bike stopped at that random intersection without having to pull the carb off, or check the plug, etc... --> On-board diagnostics

So, in the future, when my bike stops because it ran out of gas, I'll be sipping a pint in the pub while you pull your carbs only to realize that the floats are empty!!!

BTW - If I had my way, you wouldn't be able change the plug without disassembling the bike anyway. This is what will need to happen if you want fast, light, and reliable!!!

-Parsko

ust to let ya know... We are VERY close to being able to have bike software updated when it enters the garage (that is, if you've entered this millenium and have a wireless connection at home).

Also, it is REALLY easy to adapt the "dashboard" with enough logic to tell you why your bike stopped at that random intersection without having to pull the carb off, or check the plug, etc... --> On-board diagnostics

Click to expand...

Hi Parsko, don´t know exactly who "we" is, but I´m very interested about the product.
Please inform us asap if you have any updates about the product, everything that makes riding easier is very welcome
OBD is fine - but nothing new, even the wireless one... (eg.elmscan) -
So they are fine for reading/erasing troublecodes - and?
So,will it be possible to change the EFI-Settings with your product?
Because THIS is the real goal

As long as the Factory-rides stick with carbs, I will too.

(while I snack...)

"we" is simply meant to mean "society", humankind, etc... The technology exists for very little additional cost to the bike. I'm not speaking as an insider, simply as a consumer, like you.

The nice thing about the current level of technology out there is that "we" are to the point where there is little need to "crack" the bike open. FI allows the plug to be changed once a year due to actually managing the fuel being burnt, counting total engine RPM, etc... Proper valve design allows for once a year adjustment.

Totally agreed that carbs are simpler, but again, this ain't 1957, it's 2007. FI has been through the loops, and is quite reliable, to the point of only having to do maintenance once a year.

OBD - Besides failures such as:


http://www.husaberg.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=download&id=788


you can do most diagnostics via computer. Power, fuel, spark can all be checked. Otherwise, you're taking crap apart. But, FI would prevent one from cleaning jets in the middle of the woods, only to realize that you didn't tighten the intake boot enough...

You get my point, I think???

-Parsko

PS - I fully believe this to be the next big thing. Shortly, everyone will have FI, but the companies that use it to their (and the consumers) advantage are going to be the ones to stand out from the rest.

The major CON to this, is that when you allow the consumer to change things, i.e. fuel maps, then you will have consumers blowing up their bikes, and blaming the brand, even though they did it themselves. But, this very same power is within your grasp right now a.k.a. putting in a jet that will lean the crap out of the bike.

PPS - Forgot to mention. With a simple dashboard and 2-4 button interface, it would be VERY easy to set things up so you can make changes in the field (or garage) WITHOUT a laptop!!!! I'm waiting for the one company to be this clever... Not that I would necessarily know what to do with it!!!!!

http://www.motor-forum.nl/forum/list_messages/168196

SCROLL DOWN A BIT....

This is the proper link I was looking for regarding something that is not diagnosable via a computer.....

-Parsko

Parsko, in good old UHE-style we´re waaaaaay off topic

You get my point, I think???

Click to expand...

More or less I do, Parsko - think we should open a new topic: "Efi versus Carbs"

I agree that it WOULD be very easy to add all diagnosis/adjustment tools with reasonable costs -
but why should a manufactor do it?
They are making money with selling bikes, parts,accessoires & services to dealers ( and dealers to endcustomers...)
Guess what happens(with the loyal(?) dealers), if a manufactor changes the working system?

And as we´re living a capitalistic world, I :doubt: that things will change soon

I hope 09 Husabergs will have efi, is the future and as we

know, husaberg is a high end product. efi will no give us any problem for the contrarie like in cars, many of you will remember when you had to start an old Wagoneer, and have to pump the gas 3, 4 times to get it going, and that smell of gas, warm the car before living, well as we can see not any more, in new cars is a complete revolution, you can stop using a car for a month or more and you just turn the key and.... you know what happens.

So don´t worry for the efi, I personally think that is one of the few thing that we don´t have to worry about it¡¡¡

Cheers