Street Legal ?

LINEAWEAVER said:

I completely understand your point and concern.
Perhaps the cost to certify a single is simply not considered a good investment. 8O
I smell a more street biased twin on the horizon.
Dale

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And I smell trouble if I say what I think.
Again, sadly.

Ah wtf...

Of course there is always the "Lexus" solution with an EPA qualified KTM (Husa2000) engine or even their new DOHC??
Again, sadly.

But at least it won´t be a Jaguar...
OK BITE ME!!!

I stand for it!

/Peter

PS
This kind of sht takes MONEY!!!
Don´t think there won´t be major changes, ..´cause there will be...
We are the kind of crowd that needs a product that is CERTIFIED and LEGAL.
Believe me, I had no idea about this a month ago, but I feel the wings of bureaucracy big time. And it´s coming our way 12-18 months later as usual...

Your laws control our production, your consumption controls our laws...
OK!!! Borderline TOS, but it has to do with our love for Husaberg!

Aspen, my (new) friend, don't worry about speaking your mind here, or about "political correctness", that was all LAST WEEK! :twisted:

Shoot!

I must have missed that one...Should have been such a feast...
I never say anything inappropriate.
Have we met in church???

/Petrus

Dale said:

I have tremendous first hand experience with both CARB and EPA.

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Care to share some info regarding this process, I'm curious. I certainly could understand it bearing a large cost, for sure. But, is it possible that a fleet, such as KTM proper be certified, and Husaberg simply fall under the clause as long as the proper components (Cat for instance) are in place? That is the way the auto industry is, they test as a fleet average. (no need to get into that arguement here)

I agree with aspen in that this post is quite interesting. I have read elsewhere about something which rings a similar bell in my noggin. It regarded the patent system, and how it stifles invention... Need less to say, it is about the system, and us having to deal with it. I am metaphorically comparing this to how the EPA standards basically dictate the standards throughout the rest of the "system". It's funny how this forum has so many members residing in Cali too.

It's getting very late for me right now....

-Parsko

Parsko said:

It's funny how this forum has so many members residing in Cali too.
It's getting very late for me right now....
-Parsko

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LATE...!!! Cmon!
I´m six hrs ahead of you, and I´m getting up for some enduro trail clearing in the morning !
Where´s your commitment, Sir???

I´m living a life in CA and SWE at the same time 9 hrs apart...
The answer as we all know is Real Swedish Coffee and some good tobacco chew...

Care to share some info regarding this process, I'm curious.

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Care to be specific with regard to what it is you wish to know? :shock:

Dale

Aspen,

I live in the Netherlands right now, due to work (it was 01:30 at the time, and I had had a few beers thorughout the night).

Dale, specifics...

Estimated cost?
What is necessary to get one? (submit 20 bikes for testing? show every combination of bike avail, so it can be tested?)

I know it's kinda a loaded question, but we (as a population in general) know about these standards, but not how they get implemented.

Getting nagged to do something else right now... gotta go.

-parsko

Hi Luke,
The process for a single model is often in excess of $200,000 US pass or fail.

When I jumped on the Highland band wagon they had already spent nearly $150,000 and were no where near their target.

Dale

For those of you who don't know, there was at least one year, maybe two, that Husaberg imported a street legal version. I think it was 98, and I believe it was an ES designation. Not that, that, has any bearing on the future, just wanted to make sure everyone knew it had happened in the past.

There's no doubt in my mind that KTM will be delivering street legal DIRT bikes possibly in the next model year, and for sure by the next. No, I don't have any inside info, it's the fact that most all of the Husky street legal bikes can't be kept on the showroom floor. And for that matter, are already sold before they're even un crated.

As pointed out earlier, the Husky's are still carbureted, and they have jumped through all the whoops and paid Uncle Sam all the money to get the job done. As DL pointed out it's very expensive, but, I guess Husky saw/believed that they're market share would make up for the expense. And it would appear that they are moving a lot of units.

For those of you who would like to have your bike made street legal here in Kalifornia, there is still a loop hole that can be exploited but, you have to have the pink slip to get it done. I see a fair amount of bikes at the desert races that have a license plate in lieu of a green sticker. If you want to make this happen check out http://www.joeracerproducts.com/ and go to manuals/forms. Disclaimer: I have not done this myself, but, I have heard of several who have and are living happily everafter. Give them a call I hear they are very helpful in this endeavor.

For the record: I have dual (no pun intended) registration on my 2001 501, and just keep the street license PNO (planned non operation). And just use the green sticker as I don't ride it on the street.

As far as having to put CAT's on your lawnmower, well I doubt that's very far off either. Two days ago I heard a commercial here in so cal on the radio talking about how your old lawnmower makes more pollution than 4 cars, and the commercial was encouraging you to buy an electric lawnmower to replace it. Never mind the fact that a large portion of our electricity comes from coal fired power plants beyond the state lines, just a little unknown fact.

Courteous word to the wise:

Such "loopholes" as mentioned are subject to retroactive scrutiny and the consequent revoking of said street title and possibly a fine for your trouble.

Treat CARB and EPA with the same respect / caution one would the IRS.

Dale

There may come a day when motorcycles must pass a bi-annual inspection and emissions test like we are required do with cars in California.

Until that sad day comes I cannot imagine big brother and his minions of evil bothering with the trouble and expense of inspecting and red flagging previously street registered motorcycles due to unlawful modifications. Heck, almost every other motorcycle on the road today has non-stock engine, muffler or lighting mods that should technically make it illegal. Present company most probably included.

The people should not fear their government. The government should fear their people. Doom and gloomers here to enforce the laws that haven't been written yet begone. Let's have some fun.

Speaking of fun this reminds me of a Frank Zappa song from Joe's Garage called the Central Scrutinizer. Here are some of the lyrics...

This is the CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER...it is my responsibility to enforce all the laws that haven't been passed yet. It is also my responsibility to alert each and every one of you to the potential consequences of various ordinary everyday activities you might be performing which could eventually lead to *The Death Penalty* (or affect your parents' credit rating). Our criminal institutions are full of little creeps like you who do wrong things...and many of them were driven to these crimes by a horrible force called MOTORCYCLES!

Our studies have shown that this horrible force is so dangerous to society at large that laws are being drawn up at this very moment to stop it forever! Cruel and inhuman punishments are being carefully described in tiny paragraphs so they won't conflict with the Constitution (which, itself, is being modified in order to accommodate THE FUTURE).

Explain the "No Firearm Law" your city enforces that directly violates our constitutional rights? 8O

LINEAWEAVER said:

Explain the "No Firearm Law" your city enforces that directly violates our constitutional rights? 8O

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Funny you should ask.

But this is a motorcycle forum.

Same basic scenario so in my opinion quite relevant.

San Francisco: Gun Law



Powerful people not mass populous make rules.
Helmet law?
Prohibition?
IRS Tax Audit?

I am a realist and not the least bit pessimistic. (well, maybe a little pessimistic)

In my humble opinion:
"In order to insure peace one must be prepared for war"

Dale

LINEAWEAVER said:

Explain the "No Firearm Law" your city enforces that directly violates our constitutional rights? 8O

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Dale, I know you know where I stand on that subject..."I'd rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6".......I'll take my chances. :evil:

Another reason you'll note a lack of licence plates on ANY bike I own, (although each IS registered and insured..) it leaves me with a few extra "options" should the need arise......(key in footage of Beavis & Butthead headbangin' to "Breakin' the Law"....)

LINEAWEAVER said:

Courteous word to the wise:

Such "loopholes" as mentioned are subject to retroactive scrutiny and the consequent revoking of said street title and possibly a fine for your trouble.

Treat CARB and EPA with the same respect / caution one would the IRS.

Dale

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I don't doubt that you could be correct Dale. However, I do disagree with the part about the fine.

As it stands what one has to do is change the title of one's bike from MC to "special construction" which at this time is legal. This exemption is I believe for those that wish to build their own cars, kind of like a home built aircraft which carry an X designation in their tail numbers instead of a N to designate it as experimental. And this differs from the 1997 cut off date for turning Dirt Bikes into dual sport bikes, albeit a technicallity, but, technecallities have let some really bad people escape prosecution. Present company excluded of course. ;-)

So, if one utilizes an existing legal loophole, and said loophole is later closed, then fining someone for something they did when it was legal, but, is now illegall is called Post De Facto. And is strictly forbidden by the US constitution.

Dale, I know you know where I stand on that subject..."I'd rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6".......I'll take my chances. :evil:[/quote]

Indeed I do.

The point I am attempting to get across is some people feel a law must make sense in order to be implemented. Furthermore they feel if in violation of said law they are somehow exempt of repercussion simply because the law made no sense to begin with.

Having a cavalier attitude toward motorcycle emissions in my opinion is foolish and the equivalent of burying ones head in the sand.

Dale

DaleEO said:

LINEAWEAVER said:

Courteous word to the wise:

Such "loopholes" as mentioned are subject to retroactive scrutiny and the consequent revoking of said street title and possibly a fine for your trouble.

Treat CARB and EPA with the same respect / caution one would the IRS.

Dale

Click to expand...

I don't doubt that you could be correct Dale. However, I do disagree with the part about the fine.

As it stands what one has to do is change the title of one's bike from MC to "special construction" which at this time is legal. This exemption is I believe for those that wish to build their own cars, kind of like a home built aircraft which carry an X designation in their tail numbers instead of a N to designate it as experimental. And this differs from the 1997 cut off date for turning Dirt Bikes into dual sport bikes, albeit a technicallity, but, technecallities have let some really bad people escape prosecution. Present company excluded of course. ;-)

So, if one utilizes an existing legal loophole, and said loophole is later closed, then fining someone for something they did when it was legal, but, is now illegall is called Post De Facto. And is strictly forbidden by the US constitution.

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True to a point, however, once you have used your once in a lifetime "special construction" issue you shall be fined regarding any further non compliant vehicles. In addition should you be issued a citation and not come into compliance you will indeed be fined.

Been there / done that.
Blown / Injected BB motor coach.
Circa 1990. As in BAR 90 retroactive emissions laws.

Dale