All About Valve Springs! (with nice pics)

I can remember I had taffy's springs in my previous 650 and if I remember corectly (08 650) I did not have to remove any material from the head or rocker cover...
Seems like I just have to order new valve seals either way I go...
Than if I get the kw's in easy I'l try installing them if not I maybe use the offer from bushie trading them

The KW`s that I got for around $80 came with Titanium retainers, 30% lighter,
stronger for longer....

LOL yes better than watching vikings hey bergsmlerg

Spanner Tourist yes the seated force not peak force is what prevents valve bounce, it is as we know, a well known fact.

in our engines with the aggressive flank 08 profile cam 65lbs minimum is needed with any springs. all the springs currently available are over that if installed correctly .. any talk of valve bounce with a certain spring due to its peak force not only unheard of in the rfs builds it is just scare mongering.

there are 613 rfs engines that have been raced for years running up to 10500rpm with kibblewhites installed at 62lbs seated and there is no issue with valve bounce or valve float (nicer race cam)

if valve bounce is a concern due to high rpm or other anxiety the kibblewhites are still the best choice as their seated force can be increased 25lbs before the peak force approaches that of the other 2 sets. ie you can add 20lbs to the seated force if required (its not) and they are still better overall than the others

taffy you're amazing shooting your foot off nearly every post, none of your figures, accusations against me or your rants are consistent with or based on anything i have actually posted .. there are no discrepancies in my figures or results (give or take a pound or two) ... you are just unwilling or unable to read them properly

seriously mate your fascinating mental issues aside, you need to get some proper equipment and re measure all the springs yourself in a stock 04-08 head with stock valves on uncut seats like i did with all three sets as mounted in the same head at the same time on the same equipment then go back and examine everyone else's results.

at present you are still all over the place with the numbers not a single figure you're quoting is correct .. this is proof of just one example. i don't have time to explain the rest of all your errors yet again.

Taffy said:

the seated pressure of the original valve spring is 140LB, the DVSK I supply are on 87LB when compressed to 36mm which is where you want them.

Taffy

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and then you claimed for years on your site that the oem seated force was 100lbs

in fact its 72 lbs

regarding my results on your springs; from page 1

UK duals, with 0.1mm thick shims as lower springs seats (my idea, doesn't work) seated 76lbs

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and your 2 recent claims in the last 2 days are 61lbs and 70lbs with a 0.2mm shim LOL you'l find your seated force is actually between 75 and 80lbs depending on the bike

get some engine building equipment then go measure all the springs for yourself and you'll get it eventually

This would be of interest to the vintage Harley boy's. They run tractor seats on a plunger pole. Now the plunger has a light internal spring in it, so on a good bump the seat will bottom out on the frame. Not pleasant. Most fix it by putting a valve spring on the outside of the plunger pole to stop the seat bottoming.

This is where seated force really comes into play. I think supplying them with a range of valve springs would be the best way to test seated force and valve bounce. Nothing like real world testing by the seat of your pants.

Ha Ha haahaha!!

Bushie, Ragnar and his mates arent back on the telly until the 19th of this month.

"lothbrok" means hairy pants - I wonder what's the seated force there!

(just to be sure, that's actually really what it means! just so you don't think I'm making things up as I go along or spouting gibberish!)

bushmechanic said:

forgot to add regarding the 60lb seated with the KW 96-96000 set I get a little float at 8000 rpm with OS valves and the 08 cam

65lbs would be better for that cam/valves

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this is what you put up and this is just for a 650. you have been advertising these kits everywhere and telling everyone how great they are yet you get valve bounce at 8,000 revs. a 450 can rev to 12,000 revs and what have you done about that, what responsibility did you take?

remember that my valve springs don't get any valve bounce and I checked them myself, real testing on a 400 and 450 first NOT on a 650!

and my valve springs re not KTM valve springs! :devil: and your figures prove it because if they were KTM kits then my figures would be the same!

unless your a liar again!

it doesn't matter what you can do to your springs, and how little can be done to my springs when mine don't need touching and you're the one that had valve bounce!

as for the springs being no good for anything wilder than an 08 - rubbish! talk out of your arse!

fact is several hundred sets of my springs have been sold with not one breakage, not one failure, no valve bounce and there you are getting it at 8,000 revs fer chrissakes! and that's with 3-4,000 revs left to go! no wonder I found classic valve bounce damage on a 450!

they must have been listening to your 'expert advice' again!

all people need to know is that good kit costs money and what with proper instructions, sound advice and no problems they can buy with assurance that things run right and that at the end of the day is what matters.

Taffy

Taffy said:

this is what you put up and this is just for a 650. you have been advertising these kits everywhere and telling everyone how great they are yet you get valve bounce at 8,000 revs. a 450 can rev to 12,000 revs and what have you done about that, what responsibility did you take?

Taffy

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It can be big problem for me. ATV springs handle over 10.000RPM?

Thanks.

Taffy said:

this is what you put up and this is just for a 650. you have been advertising these kits everywhere and telling everyone how great they are yet you get valve bounce at 8,000 revs. a 450 can rev to 12,000 revs and what have you done about that, what responsibility did you take?

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You're STILL trying???

It's bleeding obvious that bushmechanic's said it many many times WHY he got valve bounce and WHY the seated force was such as it is in his install AND what seated force you'd see in a stock head!

Bushie's posting specifications isn't a weakness and it's getting pretty damn annoying to see you try to spin it that way. To further persuade you to shut up, I can also tell you that it's GLARINGLY OBVIOUS that you're NOT posting specs. HOW do your springs guard against valve bounce? And if they're so great for a 450, aren't they unnecessarily stiff for a 650?

tourist said:

And if they're so great for a 450, aren't they unnecessarily stiff for a 650?

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you have finally said something that makes sense.

yes!

but I have to be safe, I sell parts. he doesn't.

I had to check that the kit was good in a 400, and with the 53 cam. he never did.

and THAT, is what REALLY matters!

who gices a **** how light they are as long as they do the bloody job!

Taffy

I would like to see the Discovery channel do a reality show. Call it the Battle of UHE. Set up live cams in Taff's shed and in Bushie's with monitors so they can see what each other is up to.

Bushie: "Well, I measured the osculating circumference of the radially entwined sledge valve with my home made laser increment adjuster and it's 000.00000001 out."

Taffy:"There you phuqin go again. Your not listening to what I said. The adjustment of the laser osculates in reference to the doc. The doc that I wrote. Now phuq off your ruining the show."

Etc..etc...etc...etc...etc...

It would probably out rate Vikings.

Is anyone will answer my question? ATV springs reliable for FE450? I am not sure but fe 450 can turn 10.500rpm

Thanks.

Blamir said:

Is anyone will answer my question? ATV springs reliable for FE450? I am not sure but fe 450 can turn 10.500rpm

Thanks.

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Everything seems to indicate that they do. We can know for sure if the seating force is known - Bushmechanic has done measurements.

Valve spring basics: Valve Spring Basics

If spring tension is too light, valve float and eventual engine damage can occur. If the spring is too stiff, friction-related horsepower loss and accelerated valve train wear will result. According to cam experts, one of the most common causes of premature camshaft failure is the use of improper valve springs. This can include too high or too low spring pressure, or the springs can just be plain worn out.

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And - the stock 450 spring rate and length can be compared to the ATV springs for a good baseline.

Hoosaberg said:

Etc..etc...etc...etc...etc...

It would probably out rate Vikings.

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Puhqin bullsheet kundt, we would need to see a public evisciration to achieve that lofty goal. Its not the 19th but 6.5 litres of great northern will do.

I can not live with that, if my husaberg experience it..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIr8mkc1-rY

damn! interesting to see though ... and scary!

I got the valve seals and if I remove the old ones the kibblewhites seem to install without any clearance problems seems like a perfect fit I do'nt think that it will be necessary to do any machining to the head/rocker cover but I am not that skilled to be sure...
The black washer suplied with the kw kit where does that belong??? it can only be fitted first under the big spring retainer or on top just below the titanium top retainer to me it looks like un necessary to fit it but again I am better at ridign than fiddling with bikes....
And is there a method to install the duals springs to be sure to have no coil binding???
I can make some pics tomorrow

Here I have 3 attachments 1 is the big retainer installed in the head the way it should (at least I guess).
In another picture the black washer sits on top of this retainer you can see it does not fit inside it it is the same outer diameter...
The other picture I put the black washer on the titainum part that goes on top here the washer seems to big to fit.....