All About Valve Springs! (with nice pics)

PAC racing springs as recommended by FD racing



http://blaisracingservices.com/ktm/ktm- ... 0/525.html

Product Information

$179.95

Blais Racing Valve Spring Kit for 2000-2007 KTM 400/450/520/525 EXC/ MXC/ SX/ XC. Fits RFS engines only.

This Single Conical Beehive spring kit is 30 grams lighter per valve than the heavy stock dual springs. Designed by us but made by Pac Racing Springs, this is the best setup for your KTM. You will feel the power difference and your valve train will last longer. Don't waste the extra money for the extremely overpriced kits out there or the overpriced stock springs. We only sell what we use ourselves here at Blais Racing Services.

Kit Contains:

4 Pac Racing Conical Beehive Springs

4 Chromoly Upper Spring Retainers

4 Chromoly Lower Spring Retainers

Made in the USA.

Click to expand...

i have good results to report with the KTM ATV DVSK.

I pulled the rocker arms out of my 550 engine to put in the 650, as the 650's ones had the bearing pins welded. Yes, welded... It cost me $80 to have them render them useless after those bearings wore out.

So, ~125 hours of use on the 550 since I did the valve springs, timing chain. I swapped the cam follower bearings out on the rocker arms. A chain tool pops the pins out of the rocker arm, and I used a punch like this to secure them:

This is an old pic... I'm going to try and make a ring punch by drilling a divot in a drift. I'll test it on my worthless rockers with the welded pins and the old pins that came out of the good rockers.

Not that this way is bad or anything, just think I'd like to do it the same as the factory, although they might use a press?





Where was I?

Oh, results.. After 125 hours I measured the pins where the needles lie. I could see some wear on the bottom of the pin. The 125 hour pin was .001" smaller than the new pin.

I set the endplay right on the rockers, adjusted the valves with the 1/8 turn method, using a very light touch when "lightly seating" the screws. *done every 30 or 40 hours.

Every valve check, before and after adjusting, I have grabbed the rocker and physically lifted it up and down to check that it has slight amount of slack. It always had a minūte amount of slack before and after.

I used Rotella T Dino oil exclusively at 7-10 hour intervals.

It seems that the dual springs do give the cfb's an easier time.

I removed the valves+the old valve springs from a 650 and ordered a set of kibblewhites...
But I don't get it how to install....
Someone has a how to the instructions provided do'nt have any step by step install info and after looking for a while how I think it should be done I am confused maybe you have to use some parts from the original valve springs to make it work???....
I can make some pictures of the parts (springs) but left the cylinder head in the shop....

big spacer goes at the bottom

Titanium retainer at top

need to make some room around each spring in the head and the rocker cover

speced seated force is 80lbs but will be closer to 72

Well the inner diameter (red cross) of the big spacer like thing is to small to go through those little round things that are fixed in the cylinder head where the valve stems go through or maybe you have to remove this???
(It would be easyr to have a picture from a cyl head with valves/springs removed to show what I mean... )
And the washer seems to big to fit I make some pics the stock valves compared to KW

In this order the kw springs are almost the same size than stock conical ones but the spacer has to be installed to so where/how to machine this....
Maybe I just fit stock valve springs and sell the kw kit I thought it was gonna be more plug and play like the dual valve springs from taffy

thats odd Husabelg the 96 - 96000 set fitted straight in my bike, nobody else has had any trouble either

maybe you have the lower spacer upside down? or its the wrong part number lower spacer ? if the ID of the lower spacer is still too small just drill or machine it out

I measured from the top of upper retainer to bottom of the valve spring cavity in the head at 37mm for 80lbs a distance 37.7mm gave me 72lbs

if you really want a set of taffy springs I'll swap the ones I have here with your Kibblewhites LOL

this is what my 96-96000 set looks like

note the shape of the lower retainer

Valve stem seal must be removed to fit bottom spacer, replace with new one's as they get damaged when they are removed they just pull off may need to twist as you pull.

you can't listen to Bushie

he claims that my valve springs have the same strength as the KTM ATV sets.
he claims the seated pressure of the ATV sets is 72LB
he 'confesses' that my sets aren't compressed by the same amount. by 0.8mm infact compared to the ATV sets. this reduces the seated pressure of mine to somewhere around the 61LB mark. that is just using his figures.

in the meantime he has put the kibblewhite pressures UP to 65LB just to stop valve bounce!

so now my valve springs are lighter than the Kibblewhites! that leaves peak lift!

My valve spring kits have been in the Norwegian KrossKart champions Kart for the last three years. all we do is repalce them every two seasons and he just keeps winning!

he screams the **** off that 650 (thank god it isn't a 450!) and he continues to win every year!

my kits come with instructions and are a simple fit. so let us talk facts!

I've never heard of any valve bounce with my sets because as Bushie says (and yes I'm using his figures again) the peak lift of my kit is stronger than the Kibblewhites.

a customer described to me about a year ago the condition of his valve seats using Kibblewhites - classic valve bounce problem, cause and effect.

however, am I condemning the Kibblewhites? not at all! in day to day use they are just fine! but given that Bushie in his own words has valve bounce and he's not even in a Krosskart which is screaming its **** off you'll forgive me for saying that the Kibblewhites probably aren't the best choice for a racing engine - mine are!

Bushie has done his absolute damndest to slag off my stuff but on another thread he can be quoted as saying thatmy sets are lighter than the KTM ATV sets when seated using my washers that are of 0.2mm silver steel.

now before he slags the new 0.2mm silver steel shims as not being good enough, I will say that when I started with 0.1mm shims - that they weren't strong enough but that I replaced the 0.1s with 0.2s for everyone who got in touch with me except guess who.... go on have a guess everyone! that's right - Bushie! these 0.2s are THREE times stronger and there are no problems.

another thing Bushie can't do is tell you the condition of valves and seats under even harsher conditions than that Krosskart and his 700 slug, isn't that right Bushie, even you haven't got those 'visuals' the test info etc!

Nordic champions - year after year!

and as a plug for my kit, you get three pages of clear instructions on how to fit the kit. I've sold 400-500 of my kits with no problems at all bar the shims mentioned.

let the 'tosh' begin!

Taffy

Well I am running the same KW`s as in Bushie photo and they have worked just
fine, with slightly heavier valves as well, (because they are larger than STD).

The KW spring seat is quite thick probably around 4mm, there is no way I would
put a .2mm washer silver steel or what ever under a valve spring, just stupid!

oh FFS dude your autism is showing

your claimed figure for seated force being 61lbs is BS! got you AGAIN !

If you still can't even measure your own springs seated force FFS how is anyone supposed to take your claims seriously

I used a DRO accurate to 0.001mm for the distance and a proform valve spring tester, my results concur with everyone else who can actually measure things.

Taffys springs have the same coil count, wire diameter, spring rate and overall length as the KTM set. they even have the same colour paint dabbed on them. only the retainers are physically different

the ktm set has a 0.4mm thick lower seat, taffys has a 0.2mm one. the difference in seated force from this 0.2mm difference is approx 3.5lbs

this amounts to 4.3% less seated force and 1.5% less peak force than the ktm duals.. just not worth the extra money.

the kibblewhites do valve bounce at 60lbs seated and 8500rpm with the stock berg cam.

however any spring set will do the same at that low value including taffys its not rocket science

this does not occur with the kws at 65lbs up to 9k, putting them a stock head gets you close to 75lbs there is no chance of valve bounce.

the Kibblewhites are designed for 400cc to 613 ktm rfs engines with a speced seated force of 80lbs and no valve bounce up to 12K

yes 0.2mm lower spring seat is still too thin its actually 8 times stiffer than 0.1 but still not good enough.. .

he is only using such a thin squashed penny under there because otherwise taffy springs ARE THE SAME AS the KTM set

attached DVSK instructions i paid nearly 100 squids for, they should be ok for generic use

it WORKS! you're an empty vessel, just making a lot of noise, you haven't even got a sound argument!

and DO try and read what I said, I said that the KWs would be fine for all but racers!

you know, you have a dumb bigoted view on the one hand and unable to read on the other.... FFS! MY larger valves weigh less than standard so what have you been doing with yours? lead lining them!!!!

Taffy

I can read just fine, you've still got your figures mixed up

from page one

KTM ATV duals, seated 80lbs and 228peak

Click to expand...

yours are 4.3% less than that seated and 1.5% less peak

what do you come up with this time?

still 40% lighter stonger and faster ?

my springs don't bounce. that's beacsue they are stronger at a higher peak lift. AND HOW THEY SHOULD BE!

I love the way spanner says he'd never trust 0.2mm silver steel washer but a 0.5mm (and not 0.4mm as Bushie says) factory piece of marzipan is fine.

WAL of Tosh!

I've measured the difference in seated pressure in my own springs over 0.3mm and it is over 4.5LB.

By the way you don't have the right to offer up my instructions without my permission so you're braking the law and remove them!

you used to claim the KWs were so much better and now look at you! if the KTM springs are 80 at the seat and mine are the same but 0.8 less pressure then I'm 10Lb down. I'm on 70 according to your calculations!
what a liar!

Taffy

I thought you said my springs were KTM springs? yet clearly all your figures have been rubbishing mine? in all your tests mine are harder than KTM springs. YOU SAID IT!!

then you reckon the shims are 8 times harder but you still don't reckon they're good enough!

you reckon my seated pressures are harder even though they sit on thinner shims!!!! LOL!!!

your not credible, talk to my hand, your a phuqing waste of space!

Taffy

my springs don't bounce. that's beacsue they are stronger at a higher peak lift. AND HOW THEY SHOULD BE!

Click to expand...

A laugh a minute

I would have thought seat pressure would be more relevant in regards to valve bounce than " stronger at a higher peak lift. AND HOW THEY SHOULD BE!"
What ever that means

you two must be the most unloved aussies ever. saturday night and you're in front of the computer!

nobody love you......

or just no mates! LOL!!!!

spanner, I've got a lovely one saved up for you on another thread, one of your heroes has accidently pooped on your shoes mate! he's only gone and repeated what I said!

but I'll save that one up!

Taffy

This is fantastic entertainment on a saturday night with a litre of Bundaberg rum on board.

Tosh, marzipan, talk to my hand, phuq phuq phuqqity phuq, 3 bags full, the cow ran away with the spoon.

fwiw it's quite obvious to me that Taff either doesn't understand the logic behind the arguments, counterarguments, and specifications - or he pretends not to understand them. Whichever it is has long since ceased to interest me.

It's still amusing how he never fails to describe himself to a tee when he really starts losing his temper.

What is the seated force of your spring kit? What is the peak force, and how does a higher spring rate at peak lift help reduce valve bounce? What strength properties of the shims are important, and what are those figures describing each different style shim?