Joined Mar 2009
1K Posts | 251+
Portugal
Hi
Taffy, thanks for your concern but it's correct, the pict probably deceived you.
Here is a better one
[attachment=0:34cxeezr]WP_seal_in_place_2.jpg[/attachment:34cxeezr]
It's got to be this way, this seal is intended to stop the water pressure not the oil pressure.
Obviously the metal ones are better, but I could not find one with that dimension. The main reason for the metal ones is to stay in it's place and not to move, specially in a more hot environment. But this VITON one that I got resists well and with one more mm also helps to stay in place. I think I won't have a problem with those, if something fails I will report.
Anyway, this should be easier than to correct the shaft :mrgreen:
:cheers:
ZAGA
Taffy, thanks for your concern but it's correct, the pict probably deceived you.
Here is a better one
[attachment=0:34cxeezr]WP_seal_in_place_2.jpg[/attachment:34cxeezr]
It's got to be this way, this seal is intended to stop the water pressure not the oil pressure.
Obviously the metal ones are better, but I could not find one with that dimension. The main reason for the metal ones is to stay in it's place and not to move, specially in a more hot environment. But this VITON one that I got resists well and with one more mm also helps to stay in place. I think I won't have a problem with those, if something fails I will report.
Anyway, this should be easier than to correct the shaft :mrgreen:
:cheers:
ZAGA
Attachments
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
nice Zaga!
for some time I used 6mm seals and sanded them down to fit (5mm)
5 6 and 7mm wide seals seem to have been molded around the same steel cup so you can sand the rubber off down to 5mm wide before you hit the steel
this was only discovered because my trusty local bearing/ seal shop didn't have anything else
now I like to use an 07 -08 ktm 65 water pump seal it doesn't seem to wear the shaft much and is very nice soft blue stuff.
for some time I used 6mm seals and sanded them down to fit (5mm)
5 6 and 7mm wide seals seem to have been molded around the same steel cup so you can sand the rubber off down to 5mm wide before you hit the steel
this was only discovered because my trusty local bearing/ seal shop didn't have anything else
now I like to use an 07 -08 ktm 65 water pump seal it doesn't seem to wear the shaft much and is very nice soft blue stuff.
Joined Mar 2009
1K Posts | 251+
Portugal
Hi Bushie
I'm not 100% sure of this because ktm can have their own standards and suppliers, but at least here in my market, the blue seal is the standard one and that kind of brown one, is the VITON one (you can check in the previous pict).
If my memory doesn't fail me, the blue one (standard) has a working range to around 80 ºC, and I think that at least in some occasions, the cooling liquid will go over that limit.
That is the reason why I'm using that, but I was a bit harder to find, the blue one you can find it anywhere.
Before the ktm ones, what was you using ?
:cheers:
ZAGA
I'm not 100% sure of this because ktm can have their own standards and suppliers, but at least here in my market, the blue seal is the standard one and that kind of brown one, is the VITON one (you can check in the previous pict).
If my memory doesn't fail me, the blue one (standard) has a working range to around 80 ºC, and I think that at least in some occasions, the cooling liquid will go over that limit.
That is the reason why I'm using that, but I was a bit harder to find, the blue one you can find it anywhere.
Before the ktm ones, what was you using ?
:cheers:
ZAGA
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
that's good to know about the ratings and the materials
before the KTM ones I used really cheap black ones from the local shop, they seemed very good but seemed like they chewed up the shaft more than the blue ones
I find that the externally steel bodied ones sometimes don't seal around the OD (in other applications) and the rubber ones have steel inside them anyway.
when I started running the blue ones I polished the grooved (worn) area of the shaft with #1200
the blue seal runs in the groove created by the older seals
it is possible that at some point the wear just stops and everything works nicely with the shafts diameter being reduced by wear up to a point that it can still seal and not wear much.
i never had one start leaking due to wear, just replaced them often when fixing other stuff
before the KTM ones I used really cheap black ones from the local shop, they seemed very good but seemed like they chewed up the shaft more than the blue ones
I find that the externally steel bodied ones sometimes don't seal around the OD (in other applications) and the rubber ones have steel inside them anyway.
when I started running the blue ones I polished the grooved (worn) area of the shaft with #1200
the blue seal runs in the groove created by the older seals
it is possible that at some point the wear just stops and everything works nicely with the shafts diameter being reduced by wear up to a point that it can still seal and not wear much.
i never had one start leaking due to wear, just replaced them often when fixing other stuff
Joined Mar 2009
1K Posts | 251+
Portugal
Hi
I've been seeing some weep hole posts again, so I remembered to update some information about this, something that I should have done long ago
Sorry
So, about my solution of using a wider seal, it didn't worked very well for me, some times I had a very small leak, sometimes I didn't.
In my opinion, the problem is that my shaft has a very very big groove (as you can see in some early pictures), so with only 1mm away from the groove, the seal lip would be running in and out of the groove, causing some occasional leaks.
I still think that for a small groove like the one that Bushie showed, it can be a good solution, not because it won't seal in the same position, but because it will put the wear in some other place.
Then I went back to the OEM seal and it's still ok, so this shows that even with a very large groove the seal still works. Anyway now I have a new shaft that I will change in the first opportunity
Now for another info, this one has been tested for a couple of years
I'm a proud cheapskate, so I always try to find some cheaper solution for the problems I find, this is just another one.
I've tried to buy the SKF ICOS series bearing outside KTM, but no one could sell it to me, they all said it was locked to a manufacturer, so I tried to find other solution.
This is a solution for one that wants to change the bearing, but still has a good seal.
So what I have found it's that you can use a "normal" 2RS bearing and install the seal from SKF ICOS in it. You just have to remove the rubber seal from the standard bearing and you will see that you have the same groove on the bearing as the ICOS, so just install there the seal.
You have here some pictures so you can see it better.
If you want you can even leave the rubber seal in the other side, so you will have a double seal, but you won't have the lube from the engine oil.
This one has been tested for some years, so you can try it
ZAGA
I've been seeing some weep hole posts again, so I remembered to update some information about this, something that I should have done long ago
Sorry
So, about my solution of using a wider seal, it didn't worked very well for me, some times I had a very small leak, sometimes I didn't.
In my opinion, the problem is that my shaft has a very very big groove (as you can see in some early pictures), so with only 1mm away from the groove, the seal lip would be running in and out of the groove, causing some occasional leaks.
I still think that for a small groove like the one that Bushie showed, it can be a good solution, not because it won't seal in the same position, but because it will put the wear in some other place.
Then I went back to the OEM seal and it's still ok, so this shows that even with a very large groove the seal still works. Anyway now I have a new shaft that I will change in the first opportunity
Now for another info, this one has been tested for a couple of years
I'm a proud cheapskate, so I always try to find some cheaper solution for the problems I find, this is just another one.
I've tried to buy the SKF ICOS series bearing outside KTM, but no one could sell it to me, they all said it was locked to a manufacturer, so I tried to find other solution.
This is a solution for one that wants to change the bearing, but still has a good seal.
So what I have found it's that you can use a "normal" 2RS bearing and install the seal from SKF ICOS in it. You just have to remove the rubber seal from the standard bearing and you will see that you have the same groove on the bearing as the ICOS, so just install there the seal.
You have here some pictures so you can see it better.
If you want you can even leave the rubber seal in the other side, so you will have a double seal, but you won't have the lube from the engine oil.
This one has been tested for some years, so you can try it
ZAGA
Attachments
Bumping this thread as I couldn't find a more recent one.
Has anyone tried using double lip seals (23 vs 21) ?
It might be that the second lip would run outside of the worn groove.
I'm sure it's been though of before.
Has anyone tried using double lip seals (23 vs 21) ?
It might be that the second lip would run outside of the worn groove.
I'm sure it's been though of before.
Changed original O-ring with thicker 10x1.5 and fitted 2x black rubber water pump seals 10x18x4. First seal that is closer to bearing facing outside (stoping oil from geting out) and second one facing inside (stoping water from geting inside). So far not a drop of coolant or oil. Will see how it works in future...
Joined Jul 2016
596 Posts | 281+
Australia, Beechworth, Vic.
The little spring behind the seal lip can be removed, separated, shortened and rejoined. You'll see the join in the spring ring. Grab both sides and turn the right side counter clockwise. It should seperate. Cut a little off the larger end then rejoin. This will put a little more pressure on the seal lip to shaft.
Is the KTM 65 seal oversize - 5mm/6mm, or same as standard 10x18x4? I'm going to have one more shot at the seal (+ the BBSKF6201 bearing) before I take the engine to bits completely. I'd like to try an oversize/thicker seal just to eliminate the worn shaft scenario.
Cheers.
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
Went through many iterations of changing the seals.
The Kawasaki seal does not work.
The blue KTM seal works the best. You will need 10mm diameter heat shrink piece that will shrink down to 5mm. I used Emory cloth to clean up the grooves. The heat shrink is the key. I ended up replacing the seal (7) times before I got everything to seal and work correctly; mostly because the kick start shaft kept coming out when I pulled the cover, then forgot to check it before reassembly. I keep a few spare seals around and replace them whenever I go into the clutch side. I now have over 2000+ miles on the last seal.
The Kawasaki seal does not work.
The blue KTM seal works the best. You will need 10mm diameter heat shrink piece that will shrink down to 5mm. I used Emory cloth to clean up the grooves. The heat shrink is the key. I ended up replacing the seal (7) times before I got everything to seal and work correctly; mostly because the kick start shaft kept coming out when I pulled the cover, then forgot to check it before reassembly. I keep a few spare seals around and replace them whenever I go into the clutch side. I now have over 2000+ miles on the last seal.
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 773+
Ely, England
I just don't have any trouble.
If i think I'm going to have a problem I use an extra thick gasket and shunt the whole lot out.
copper washers behind the sledge plate
thick sidecover gasket
press the original seal in but leave the lip 0.5mm proud. there is often a machined recess in the bottom of the W/P housing. I have a piece of bar that presses seals down until level with the unmachined area and is therefore 0.5mm proud.
put the gasket and the seal together along with a new polyamide (most times) and I'm sure not to be pulling the cover again.
I once used the KTM65 seal and it fell in the hole so i shook the cover upside down and it fell out again!
http://taffmeisters.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=2319
or
http://taffmeisters.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=2394
regards
Taffy
Last edited:
Do you know if the kit Will fit a 2000 FE 501?I just don't have any trouble.
If i think I'm going to have a problem I use an extra thick gasket and shunt the whole lot out.
copper washers behind the sledge plate
thick sidecover gasket
press the original seal in but leave the lip 0.5mm proud. there is often a machined recess in the bottom of the W/P housing. I have a piece of bar that presses seals down until level with the unmachined area and is therefore 0.5mm proud.
put the gasket and the seal together along with a new polyamide (most times) and I'm sure not to be pulling the cover again.
I once used the KTM65 seal and it fell in the hole so i shook the cover upside down and it fell out again!
101210 - Taffmeisters Water Pump OIL Leak Repair Kit 2001-2003 All Models, Taffmeisters
or
101211 - Taffmeisters Water Pump OIL Leak Repair Kit 2004-2008 All Models, Taffmeisters
regards
Taffy
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