tubliss?

the weights from jockulars thread

bushmechanic said:

Weed said:

here is a bit more tech jibber for you all in relation to wheel weights.
tubliss front weighed in at 750g,which is 750g lighter than the tube i pulled out(h/duty i think) bridgestone h/duty tube weighed in at 1.5kg.
tubliss rear weighed in at 800g,which is 900g lighter than the tube i pulled out(std tube i think) bridgestone std tube weighed in at 1.7kg

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Michelin airstop MD tube front 500gm rimlock at a guess is 70gm

rear 18" michelin airstop MF tube 576gm rear rimlock weight approx 100gm.

so its lighter to use the std setup if you don't mind changing tubes every 3000km or so.

you could prolly argue that the tubliss will handle better cause of sidewall fexuralations lower available pressures and it has its mass closer to the axle than the tube but for $15 each I like the tubes in sand. for rocks and stuff that need a HD tube the tubliss would better.

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bushmechanic said:

the only thing i don't like about it is they talk up how light it is without giving any specific data then we find out its heavier than a standard tube. not very honest

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I have weighed both front and rear Tubliss systems. They weighed the same as standard thin tubes plus one rim lock, and much less than HD tubes.

thats some heavy tubes did you include the rimlocks?

as weed and I have It the front tubliss setup is 180gm heavier than the std michy tube + berg rimlock and the rear tubliss setup is 124 gms heavier than the std michy tube + berg rimlock.

sorry if im sounding negative towards the tubliss. I nearly bought some when they were first available, just to try out because I like the idea.

glad that I did not however becasue I would have been extremely pissed off to have spent all that cash and got heavier wheels after falling for all their hype about being lighter. I'm just putting the weights up here so people can make an informed choice, I don't care what they do with their money after that.

Hi Guys

I have been running Tubliss front and rear for over 2000klm, i reckon i have spent atleast a quarter of that time riding with a flat front , big advantage is the tyre stays on the rim , and doesnt slow you down too much if at all, a couple of the guys i ride with say i should ride with flat tyres all the time :bounce:

Also had a flat rear one day after hitting a ledge way too hard and bent the rim letting all the air from the tyre part as there was no seal, once again the tyre stayed where it should untill i made it to a servo where i borrowed a shifter and straightened the rim, pumped them up again and had no problems since

what i really like about them is how easy it is to change tyres, especialy the rear

Cheers

Zorm
FE570

Catastrophic Failure - Expensive and painfull :angry:

I went out the weekend before last for ride with a club I'm involved with, the DSMRA https://www.dsmra.asn.au/

It was the annual Canberra Tumut weekend ride. An excellent mix of some gnarly hills, fire trails and single track, including some freshly cut for the ride. I mostly rode sweep and did about 185 kms on Saturday over the Brindies and some excellent trails west. A whole new return leg was going great and I was enjoying myself thoroughly.

One common transport section exists on both days and that involves crossing the Goodradigbee River on Brindabella Road. On the way home on Sunday after lunch and at about the 120 km mark we popped out of the forest onto Brindabella Road. After a few gravel kms, a new section of coarse spray & chip sealed road appeared. Upon setting up for a right hand bend, a little brake, and then some countersteer, I was suddenly sailing through the air, landing on my head and face down. No warning, nothing. A smashed helmet, bumps, lacerations and bruising all over resulted, and no more riding. The bike isn't too bad, a few scratches. With a bit of an adrenaline rush, I was able to pick the bike up and get it off the road. In doing so, I noticed the front tyre was completely flat, which suggested to me that the Tubliss might have failed suddenly, and explain why I crashed.

In the meantime, I spent the night in hospital, and if I wasn't retired, would have been off work for at least a week. Definitely sore and suffering.

Today I finally got the energy up to pull the front wheel off and work out why the tyre was flat. It appears that the wire bead in the Tubeliss red carcass failed for some reason. This had the effect of puncturing and tearing the high pressure beadlock tube which meant that the tyre was instantly unsupported, and uninflated, resulting in my crash. there was no warning, no wobble, no squirm, nothing, just did exactly the same as the previous couple of corners, and went sailing through the air. There was nothing on the road, no rocks, no bumps. I figure I was doing about 70 kph at the time when I landed on my head.

Here is some pics:
[attachment=2:1lyr6jkv]DSCN3251 (Small).JPG[/attachment:1lyr6jkv]
[attachment=1:1lyr6jkv]DSCN3253 (Small).JPG[/attachment:1lyr6jkv]
[attachment=0:1lyr6jkv]DSCN3254 (Small).JPG[/attachment:1lyr6jkv]
In the second photo you can see the ends of the wire bead adjacent to the valve core tools. They are overlapping, and should be joined.

And I should add that the Tubeliss had been in service for a little over a year, was on its third tyre, with a total of about 2,800 kms.

Back to conventional tubes for me, I'm over pain.

Steve

nasty, last time I came off was around that speed, i rolled couple times and tried to get up... and run at 40ks or so not gonna work ... went straight back down again.... ouch

there is a guy down here steve had the same thing happen at the finke race

he's posted the issue up on advrider as "Macka"

KTMtalk has a few stories like this as well, either the little red tube fails or a rim is dinged so bad the air comes out of the tyre.

No rim or tyre damage Bushy, just me and barkbuster mostly, and some other gravel rash on the bike.

Its the wire in the red bit that failed first IMO.

Cost me a new helmet and some repairs to other gear. Popped the patella cup off my Pod knee brace too, and that resulted in some stitches which should come out Friday. Tech 8s and full armour are well worth it, but not the total solution. I guess that is not riding....

Steve

Its the wire in the red bit that failed first IMO.

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that was mackas diagnosis also, no rim damage just sudden loss of pressure after the wire ripped out of the red tube, he did run with a too flat tyre for a while a few rides beforehand and reckons it may have fatigued the inner tube.

bushmechanic said:

Its the wire in the red bit that failed first IMO.

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that was mackas diagnosis also, no rim damage just sudden loss of pressure after the wire ripped out of the red tube, he did run with a too flat tyre for a while a few rides beforehand and reckons it may have fatigued the inner tube.

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Gotcha.

I've found the thread on AdvRider, buts its 80 + pages and.....
http://www.advrider.com/forums/search.p ... id=2787015

I always check my pressures before a ride, although on multi day rides its usually a squeeze test, not a gauge. I don't believe that its ever been ridden under 10 psi, I have been routinely setting it at 13 psi, with 110 psi in the tube using your suggestion of a 12v 4wd compressor. Its always held air too, no slow leaks, and no worse than a normal tube.

I've also emailed Nuetech with some photos. I don't expect a response, but they need to know.

Its now got a BS UHD 4 mm tube in it again.

Steve

I got a reply from Jeff

Here is what he said in response to this issue....

THANK YOU for the e-mail and VERY Sorry for the slow reply, we just returned from a long holiday with the family and am slowly trying to catch back up.



We have seen this only a few times (with the first production models) and in every case that we were able to get the damaged liner back it was due to excess force being used when installed. Some riders use more FORCE or LEVERAGE instead of using the drop center of the wheel. We were surprise to learn that a lot of people believe you actually STRETCH the tire on. After learning this we have doubled up the bead wire to make it much more damage resistant, but at a certain point it is impossible to prevent this as we also learned the people breaking the beads of the main tire when installing them is not uncommon.



Do you recall if the inside diameter of the bead is smooth or if it has the small intermittent bumps around the ID of the red liner (like in the attached picture)? If you have the older ones, we will update them at no charge to the more damage resistant version if you like.



Please let us know if any other questions or if we can be of any other assistance.



ALL the BEST!

Jeff

I run the tubliss system on my 2010 FE 570 and my 2009 YZ 250
The system is great
I have learned over the passed three years
Don't use Tire Irons to install or remove the red tire, they will damage the rubber that covers the cable in the bead of the red tire. If you damage the cable with tire irons the broken strands of wire WILL blow the red tire tube
Use soap and water or silicone spray and lately I have been using silicone grease (brake grease from auto stores) to install or remove the red tire this has worked great.
You should be able to push the red tire on the rim if lubed properly by HAND one bead at a time on the 18" size, the 21'' pushes on easier. Make sure the rim edge has no sharp burrs from rocks or tire irons this will damage the bead of the red tire .
I use the silicone grease on the inside of the main tire BUT NOT between the main tire and the rim
If the main tire does not seat all the way around the rim when you inflate the tube in the red tire to 100psi just put 20 or 30 psi in the main tire and it should seat all the way around. Follow the instructions.
When you remove a worn out main tire be carful NOT to hook the red tire with the tire iron ( I made this mistake twice damaging the red tire) I ground down the tip of the tire iron about 1/8" now the tire iron does not hook the red tire when removing the main tire.
The Tubliss system is great for many reasons BUT you do need to install and remove the main tire and or the red tire carefully
Very easy and fast to install and remove worn out tires once you learn the procedure. Very easy to fix flats from a nail.
The system is also perfect for trials tires.
Have a great ride
Haskell in Idaho

Re: I got a reply from Jeff

pete40 said:

Here is what he said in response to this issue....

THANK YOU for the e-mail and VERY Sorry for the slow reply, we just returned from a long holiday with the family and am slowly trying to catch back up.

We have seen this only a few times (with the first production models) and in every case that we were able to get the damaged liner back it was due to excess force being used when installed. Some riders use more FORCE or LEVERAGE instead of using the drop center of the wheel. We were surprise to learn that a lot of people believe you actually STRETCH the tire on. After learning this we have doubled up the bead wire to make it much more damage resistant, but at a certain point it is impossible to prevent this as we also learned the people breaking the beads of the main tire when installing them is not uncommon.

Do you recall if the inside diameter of the bead is smooth or if it has the small intermittent bumps around the ID of the red liner (like in the attached picture)? If you have the older ones, we will update them at no charge to the more damage resistant version if you like.

Please let us know if any other questions or if we can be of any other assistance.

ALL the BEST!

Jeff

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Interesting that you got a response from Nutech, I didn't. I assume that you got this info originally from Wazza over on DBW?

FWIW I fitted the Tubeliss with my hands, and the failure in question occured after 1000 kms of desert riding and about 300 kms of bush on the Tumut ride after being fitted. I'd have thought if it was a fitting error, it would have happened sooner?

Do you have the picture Jeff refers too? Can you post it?

As much as I like the concept and how it works normally, the sudden catastrophic nature of the failure mode means I won't be using them again. The incident I refered to cost me a new helmet, hospital and medical, and bike and gear repairs, and now after 5 weeks, the scabs are almost gone and I got a 3 day ride in this weekend just gone, albeit on the DR not the Berg.

I'll send the failed item to Tubeliss if they want it for examination.

Steve

bloody hell steve,that terrible.not good at all. :?
i've only just seen your post from a while back.
i'm due for another rear tyre so it might be a good time to rip them both off & make sure the beads on these these red inners look "ok".
nothing worse than coming off when its not your fault. :evil:
well mate, i hope you fully recover.sounds like you didn't do any more knee damage,at least that something.
scary stuff when that happens.at least you got out of it without any permanent damage,some are not so lucky. :cry:
how did the knees hold up after that 3 day ride you went on?
..weed..

I did notice plenty of bark off Steve's arms when I met him a few weeks ago. He was too sore to take my 570 for a spin

Thanks for the kind thoughts guys.

Dunno how you can check the Tubeliss weed, they're either good, or not good? Mine was OK until it wasn't.

Knees are hanging in there, 3 day ride was excellent.

The scabs are almost gone from my left knee. The patella cap on the POD knee brace was knocked off in the impact and I got numerous lacerations and 6 stitches there. The biggest problem was my right arm which is almost now healed after 5+ weeks. I thought it'd be the concussion and swollen brow with black eye that was the main problem. I was battered and bruised all over, and I know its a bit of a cliche, but older bodies don't recover like they used to.

The incident happened about 14.00. I got ferried to Canberra Hospital, arriving at about 17.00 after getting back to our kick off point at the Cotter, and changed and loaded up with help from the crew. Fortunately we had acouple of 4wd support vehicles. I was sweep with a radio so took a little while, but could have been worse. Pete D drove my ute with me and my bike to Hospital. After queuing and checking in they said to take a seat and they'd get to me in some hours . Lots of casualities hanging about. I was concerned that my stuff was on my ute not that well secured and Pete needed to get home. Not sure what they'd want to end up doing with me. I decided to check out, called my girls who live in Canberra and met up with them. One drove me to Cooma Hospital, 1.25 hrs away in my ute, and the other drove Pete home and went to collect my wife from home and bring her in to Cooma. It made more sense as then I'd be nearly home, and I'm known in Cooma Hospital, as among other things, my lovely wife works there as the pharmacist.

After getting seen to and everything being sorted initially and probably sooner than they would have had I stayed in Canberra, there was concern for my arm. Compartment syndrome can be a bad thing as the swelling can block off arteries and nerves and needs immediate surgery else lose the limb. This meant I was in an ambulance at about 23.30 heading back to Canberra. My wife eventually retrieved me about 13.00 Monday and took me home to veg. She did volunteer to go past the bike shops if I wanted to get a new helmet on the way. I love my wife. :cheers: I opted out, I didn't have the energy.

Got a new helmet on ebay later, same model as the one I had, so I now have a spare liner and peak and I know it fits.

So in then end, no permannt damage, just my wallet and pride, but I do know it wasn't me. I'll ride Davos 570 when next we meet.

It might not have been so bad if the road surface was not as fresh as it was, or I was going slower, but it could have been worse. I wear full armour, knee braces and Tech 8s, and I suffered. If you don't wear all the gear, its only a matter of time. If I was wearing an open face helmet, I probably would at best be using a straw right now.

No more Tubeliss for me. When this failure mode occurs, there is no warning, no indication, nothing, just bang.

Steve

Re: I got a reply from Jeff

steve said:

..
Interesting that you got a response from Nutech, I didn't. I assume that you got this info originally from Wazza over on DBW?....

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Only thing I can think of is that Jeff is still pouring through emails, or yours got bounced. I had had previous email contact with him so he may have had me in his system.

Jeff really seems to care about his product and would like to make sure it works as expected I am sure, so I would try again if I was you. Sounds like you did the right thing as far as fitting goes, so there may be other issues that we all need to be aware of.

Yes, wazza did post in DBW.

Here's the pic that Jeff referred to...

I had a nice email with a guy at Nue-tech and I have used the system previously in my 300 xc-w (rear) with an mt-16 and a mt-43
The guy said that Bridgestones have soft sidewalls and may not be ideal for tu-bliss.
That of course is the stock rubber on my 2010 450. I know for sure that here in Vermont, USA, I will be spooning on an mt-16 out back asap. I used to use the old mt-44 front which is now dubbed the XCMS. Does anyone have any recommendation for an ideal front tire here in New England?
Thanks

kdennan said:

I had a nice email with a guy at Nue-tech and I have used the system previously in my 300 xc-w (rear) with an mt-16 and a mt-43
The guy said that Bridgestones have soft sidewalls and may not be ideal for tu-bliss.
That of course is the stock rubber on my 2010 450. I know for sure that here in Vermont, USA, I will be spooning on an mt-16 out back asap. I used to use the old mt-44 front which is now dubbed the XCMS. Does anyone have any recommendation for an ideal front tire here in New England?
Thanks

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In my experience trials tires like the MT43 have a softer sidewall than most knobbies, including the Bridgestone my bike came with. I've had no problems so far with the MT43, but then I don't race or even go fast except on pavement.

I'm gonna give the stock Bridgestone M59 front a try with the Tu-Bliss. I have heard nothing but great things about that tire here in Vermont.
I'll just start out with a bit more pressure.
Last year I was running about 6 or 7 psi in the MT-16 in the rear.
Always used to run 10 rear and 12 front with hd tubes.
Haven't used the tubliss up front yet.
I like to go fast in the gnarly tight stuff, which is to say that it really isn't very fast at all. I don't race either so I don't thrash and bash when the trail opens up.
Thanks again CodeMonkey!