FE650 copper head gasket

Maybe it's not the head gaskets to blame. Main reason for a blown head gasket is overheating. Also your cylinder head may warped, that was why a friend of mine had 4 head gasket changes on his Yamaha and all of them failed. You might want to take a look at the bolts as well because if you overtightened them, they may have elongated(dont know if thats the correct word), and may not hold the cylinder head strong enough.

Tom

bigbossjake said:

I keep blowing head gaskets on my 2005 FE650. Does anyone know of a copper or other high quality head gasket that is available in the USA? If not, I will order from JBS.

Click to expand...

first of all nobody can get the copper head gaskets to seal. Bushmechanic tried EVERYTHING including fire rings the LOT! no joy. JBS tried everything: no joy. in the end they ran the standard HG poking into the cylinder.

as above said: cleanliness, also it is 46LB not 46Nm. I use wet n dry P600, a block of plained wood and some gunk and go arounf the head and block at what i call the quarter angle. so if I was rubbing down a clock face the wooden block would have its head and tail at 12 and 3 o clock. and keep moving around every stroke - never stand still.

regards

Taffy

Have head studs instead of bolts been tried on Husabergs? A guy that builds reliable 55-60+ HP DR-Z motors swears by 'em. (Eddie O'Dell - has some great engine build / info posts over on drzforums.com.)

The difference is that the fastener doesn't twist and deform - it stays put in the threaded hole - only the nuts twist. Helps preserve head gaskets as part of a healthy balanced diet.

I "banged" out one of the pins(rivets) with a hammer and a nail(grind its pointy side down to a flat). Just like you would do with any normal chain that has no dissasembly link. U just need a friend to keep counter force, preferably with something hard with a hole in it where the pin will slide in.(dunno if this made sense to you )

Tom

Taffy said:

bigbossjake said:

I keep blowing head gaskets on my 2005 FE650. Does anyone know of a copper or other high quality head gasket that is available in the USA? If not, I will order from JBS.

Click to expand...

first of all nobody can get the copper head gaskets to seal. Bushmechanic tried EVERYTHING including fire rings the LOT! no joy. JBS tried everything: no joy. in the end they ran the standard HG poking into the cylinder.

as above said: cleanliness, also it is 46LB not 46Nm. I use wet n dry P600, a block of plained wood and some gunk and go arounf the head and block at what i call the quarter angle. so if I was rubbing down a clock face the wooden block would have its head and tail at 12 and 3 o clock. and keep moving around every stroke - never stand still.

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

under the new site ownership i am permitted once again to respond to your extremely misleading posts.

so hello again friends !

For whatever it may be worth the method I use for head gaskets on my 105mm bore is extremely effective, i recently found out it is the exact same method used in top fuel Harley drag bikes.

they bore out a fiber gasket to take a copper fire ring and use a wire ring in the top of the liner to embed into the copper ring.





it works because the fiber portion can compress a lot more than copper. the bolts can pull the head down closer to the liner out near the bolts while the copper fire ring gets maximum crush with the wire ring and in turn is strong enough to withstand the combustion forces.

the problem with the JBS (gaskets to go) fiber gaskets and their MLS gasket is that after about 9 hours the rolled steel fire ring gets fatigue cracks in it



the problem with the copper gaskets in the 105mm bore is that the head cannot be pulled down around the bolts far enough to get the required crush at the bore. It can work fine though on a 100mm bore and has been done already.. you can buy copper head gaskets for husabergs off eBay.

JBS tried everything: no joy. in the end they ran the standard HG poking into the cylinder.

Click to expand...

this is also incorrect, as you have seen their sidecar engines worked very well
and the only person who has run JBS headgaskets poking into the cylinder and sold undersized ones is Taffy he did it becasue he didn't notice the gaskets were too small.

bigbossjake said:

I keep blowing head gaskets on my 2005 FE650. Does anyone know of a copper or other high quality head gasket that is available in the USA? If not, I will order from JBS.

Click to expand...

FWIW the oem gaskets are better than the fibre JBS gaskets becasue the rolled fire ring is thicker and doesn't fatigue crack as easily

Dr_C had some success with the oem ones in his engine, they are pretty good gaskets, you can put a bit of shim under the liner to make it stick up 0.05mm to 0.1mm that will help a lot

Anthon Berg said:

Have head studs instead of bolts been tried on Husabergs? A guy that builds reliable 55-60+ HP DR-Z motors swears by 'em. (Eddie O'Dell - has some great engine build / info posts over on drzforums.com.)

The difference is that the fastener doesn't twist and deform - it stays put in the threaded hole - only the nuts twist. Helps preserve head gaskets as part of a healthy balanced diet.

Click to expand...

the kit i use has studs, fine pitch threads on the nuts, can go up to 100N.m

Spanner mentioned another source, he might be able to help

from FD racing.. no headgasket...

bottom line is that if you have enough crush at the bore on the fire ring nothing is going to get out

fdracing said:

at the end of the day i decide to do the metal-ring myself , it's an square ring with 2 teeth on both side i made it on stainless steel 431 , oil pressure has it's own o-ring , and for water sealing i use an simple paper gasket.

it may give you some idea for your engine :wink:

i start the test yesterday , it seems to work well for the moment :wink:

today , hard ride , and let see what's happen !!!!

so !!! , the ring do the job !!! full throttle on 6 gear for miles , the only way i know for testing !!!! :wink:

Click to expand...

bushmechanic said:

this is also incorrect, as you have seen their sidecar engines worked very well
and the only person who has run JBS headgaskets poking into the cylinder and sold undersized ones is Taffy he did it becasue he didn't notice the gaskets were too small.

Click to expand...

you are incorrect. Jess Ballard told me last Month that they use the OEM HG.

however, you are right about the second point. I didn't notice that JBS had supplied undersize HGs for the standard 100mm bore.

bushmechanic said:

under the new site ownership i am permitted once again to respond to your extremely misleading posts.

so hello again friends !

Click to expand...

Hi BUSHIE

Welcome back

:cheers:
ZAGA

Taffy said:

bushmechanic said:

this is also incorrect, as you have seen their sidecar engines worked very well
and the only person who has run JBS headgaskets poking into the cylinder and sold undersized ones is Taffy he did it becasue he didn't notice the gaskets were too small.

Click to expand...

you are incorrect. Jess Ballard told me last Month that they use the OEM HG.

however, you are right about the second point. I didn't notice that JBS had supplied undersize HGs for the standard 100mm bore.

Click to expand...

IMHO thats nuts compared to the other options, i suppose if they are still running 1.8mm squish it isn't so dangerous.

the quality of products out of Thailand is ridiculous, "yes yes very sorry we fix it for you this time" .. then they send the exact same crap. gaskets to go seems no exception, jbs palming it off to you was reasonably predictable, just send em to someone who can't tell

I did try a 105mm jbs gaskets to go gasket on a 100mm bore with the 80mm crank, it compressed more so gave 0.85mm squish as opposed to the oem 1.2 and bumped the CR up it was very nice and i ran it about 20 hours without any leaks

under the new site ownership i am permitted once again to respond to your extremely misleading posts.

so hello again friends !
.

Click to expand...

Great to have you here again.
Looking forward to your technical info posts like the above

:cheers:

welcome back. it's good to see you haven't lost a step. :cheers:

Great to see you back again :cheers:

nice to be able to help again :wink:

FWIW this is the ebay seller who can make a 100mm bore gasket for our bikes

http://stores.ebay.com/copper-gaskets-u ... 7675.l2563

doesn't seem to have the right one listed in 100mm but he can do it if asked

to make it work really really well the liner needs to be at least 0.05 higher than the block or have a wire ring in the top of the liner, if you are worried about water/oil passages use hylomar sparingly or 3bond 1207B but not on the fire ring area

bushmechanic said:

FWIW this is the ebay seller who can make a 100mm bore gasket for our bikes

http://stores.ebay.com/copper-gaskets-u ... 7675.l2563

Click to expand...

He also can make them in the following thickness, .40mm .53mm .66mm .81mm 1.06mm 1.27mm 1.6mm 2.0mm 2.33mm 3.17mm.
Which opens up some possibility.

bushmechanic said:

Spanner mentioned another source, he might be able to help

Click to expand...

I have tracked down some ARP studs which I think will work, but as I have not received them yet
so I can not be 100% sure they will work.

Cheers spanner

Copper head gaskets have arrived Look very nice US$25 ea
These are made to suite my 103.65 bore.
Will be using a wire o-ring in a groove machined in the top of the liner.
Will use Hylomar spray for sealing the water area, fingers crossed. :wink:
http://stores.ebay.com/copper-gaskets-u ... 34.c0.m322





On the left, ARP head studs part # ARP-AM4125-LB $10 ea
1.5 mm pitch on the end that screws into the cases and 1.25mm pitch on nut end
ARP 12pt nuts part # 301-8332 M10x1.25 sold as a pair so order two packs. US$7.78 x 2
These ARP studs are made from 8740 Chrome Moly heat treated to 190,000psi tensile strength.

The plated bolt is the original 10.9 grade. Heat treated tensile strength of 1040MPA or 150,000psi

Stud washers and nut on right is JBS`s. Do not know material or it strength but the shank of this stud measures
10mm whereas the ARP and the original head bolt measure 9mm not sure that would necessary
make it any stronger as the thread minor diameter is going to be the weakest point.
The ARP threads are formed by rolling after heat treatment, where as the JBS`s are cut... :roll:




I am going to use the JBS washers as they are a good 4mm thick :wink:
and they are necessary to stop the ARP nuts bottoming on the threads of the ARP
studs.
I had already increased the diameter of the spot face where the washers seat, for
use with the JBS studs washers and nuts,
this may or may not be necessary depending on the washer diameter. The ARP nuts are .5mm
larger in diameter than the std Husaberg head bolt.
So NOTE Thick washers of suitable diameter will be needed!


Cheers spanner