i have taffys dvsk with the standard spacer under the spring? is that wrong? will it **** my engine?
just curious
just curious
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
no, this web site isn't phuqed. it'll only be phuqed if you let it be. first thing you need to do is quantify what you asked. so it is based on what?
one small comment by one person who was just flinging poo to see what happened?
as I'm aware NOBODIES DVSKs have let them down WHOEVER made them. I'm not making the accusations or comments I'm just defending myself and waiting for the day someone 'above' wakes up to this.
but it was still a daft comment mate....sorry but there you have it. If you have concerns about your valve spring kit then talk to me via an email or a PM. you had faith in me to buy the kit so try keeping it.
it's a bit like: never question your wife's judgement: look who she married!
regards
Taffy
one small comment by one person who was just flinging poo to see what happened?
as I'm aware NOBODIES DVSKs have let them down WHOEVER made them. I'm not making the accusations or comments I'm just defending myself and waiting for the day someone 'above' wakes up to this.
but it was still a daft comment mate....sorry but there you have it. If you have concerns about your valve spring kit then talk to me via an email or a PM. you had faith in me to buy the kit so try keeping it.
it's a bit like: never question your wife's judgement: look who she married!
regards
Taffy
Taffy chill dude he just asked a question you could have just answered it. No one was having a go at you or your products.
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
zaga said:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I really hope not. one man at a time PLEASE!!!
If I could afford it my only dream is to travel Australia whilst taking in the 2013 British and Irish Lions Tour. I keep trying to save.... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
I think I could die happy after that..... every Australian I ever talked to till this last couple of Months has been a better bloke than I can hope to be. they make the Brits look like cardboard. I'd love to have a drink in Kalgoorlie, the outback, Alice Springs etc. real men.....
not like the girls we have over here and it is spreading..............
regards
Taffy
Taffy wrote: "it's the valve springs!"
Taffy, I have managed to pull a bikes length away from my pesky son on his 06 TE450. It's jetted and he gutted his exhaust. His bike is fast.
It's quite nice to see a measurable gain.
The dozen times we had raced before, it was neck and neck, or 1/2 a front wheel at the most.
Rolling starts in mid 4th gear up to 80 mph or so. So why wouldn't the 650 beat the 450 you ask?
I'm about 50 pounds heavier than him, at 235 with gear.
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
nice one Idle.
I'm sure there are many more stories like this. in years to come all this info will be forgotten and someone will ask the same question again and then answer it themselves even though they haven't done their homework. right now there is a Jetting thread going on and it's the same there.
regards
Taffy
I'm sure there are many more stories like this. in years to come all this info will be forgotten and someone will ask the same question again and then answer it themselves even though they haven't done their homework. right now there is a Jetting thread going on and it's the same there.
regards
Taffy
Taffy, my bike is still going "tink" every so often when I let off just a hair on the throtle. Every thing else is perfect exept that "tink"
Or someone ?
Or someone ?
Joined Sep 2007
782 Posts | 291+
???
F+ not saying yours is the same but I had a problem with a spray welded cam flaking and every now and then I heard a "tink" sound,
you might wont to inspect the lobes of the cam. Might be the cam roller bearings on the way out also?
For the record I have the kibblewhite dual valve spring kit (KTM 450) and they have a 4.5mm spacer under them.
Titanium retainer, 8grms
Conical retainer, 12grms
DVS weight, 34grms
Conicial spring weight, 45grms
I guess some of the spring weight would be considered as reciprocating.
Cheers spanner
you might wont to inspect the lobes of the cam. Might be the cam roller bearings on the way out also?
For the record I have the kibblewhite dual valve spring kit (KTM 450) and they have a 4.5mm spacer under them.
Titanium retainer, 8grms
Conical retainer, 12grms
DVS weight, 34grms
Conicial spring weight, 45grms
I guess some of the spring weight would be considered as reciprocating.
Cheers spanner
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
apologies for not getting back to this sooner 
the reduced effort required to turn the engine with a DVSK is due to the reduced peak and average force not the seated force. so purely in the interests of "clearing things up" .....
it seems Taffy is incapable of measuring seated forces I tried to tell him his figures didn't add up in 2009 and got told I was being "far too anal" ahem cough ..... so to be fair to the mechanically challenged ... WITHOUT even measuring anything consider this
claim 1 OEM seated pressure is 140 LBS... wrong (also claimed on site"taffmeisters UK" to be 100Lbs .. so which is it?)
claim 2 TOFFEE DVSK reduces seated pressure by 40% ... also wrong
to keep this impartial and try to avoid another paranoid delusion about "attacks" i'll just put up some links with info from people who can actually measure stuff.
lineaweaver http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/161304 ... l-springs/
DJH et al http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic= ... lve+guides http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic= ... ed+tension
Dr_C http://www.husaberg.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9366 http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... e&start=15
Faust http://www.husaberg.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11115
there are others Plus my results but i'll stay out of it because it will be taken the wrong way :cry:
ok so if the OEM seated force is 100 lbs as claimed on taffys site then a 40% reduction in seated force is 60lbs. if its 140Lbs as hes claimed previously then a 40% reduction in seated force is 84 lbs (just over actual OEM seated force)
the actual seated force of the oem springs in a stock head with stock valves is measured by many at between 72 and 82 pounds. 40% reduction of that gives you 43 - 50 lbs which is where valve bounce starts and you don't want that :wink: minimum safe seated pressure is 60lbs.
the best a vendor of a DVSK that fits in our engines can currently claim is that the seated force is about the same as OEM and that is what most of them do.
the reason the conicals break is because over time they get shorter and their seated force isn't enough to stop resonating to death, thats why failure can be avoided by monitoring the seated force and adding preload to increase or maintain it.
FWIW the damping effect of the 2 springs in a DVSK rubbing together means you can run an even lower seated force than with a conical before you get bounce and standing waves in the springs. if you want to take advantage of that though then you need a set of springs that are short enough to install at that reduced preload.
the question ol taff will be asking is why then do dual valve springs reduce valve wear if the seated pressure is the same? .............. work that out and you'l be able to base a sales pitch on honesty and fact. he'll aslo have to admit to being wrong in this thread http://www.husaberg.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14997 I can explain it in numpty terms if you like Taffy, give me a call and have your credit card ready my rate is $1000 a day or part thereof :twisted:
the reduced effort required to turn the engine with a DVSK is due to the reduced peak and average force not the seated force. so purely in the interests of "clearing things up" .....
it seems Taffy is incapable of measuring seated forces I tried to tell him his figures didn't add up in 2009 and got told I was being "far too anal" ahem cough ..... so to be fair to the mechanically challenged ... WITHOUT even measuring anything consider this
claim 1 OEM seated pressure is 140 LBS... wrong (also claimed on site"taffmeisters UK" to be 100Lbs .. so which is it?)
claim 2 TOFFEE DVSK reduces seated pressure by 40% ... also wrong
Taffy said:
to keep this impartial and try to avoid another paranoid delusion about "attacks" i'll just put up some links with info from people who can actually measure stuff.
lineaweaver http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/161304 ... l-springs/
DJH et al http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic= ... lve+guides http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic= ... ed+tension
Dr_C http://www.husaberg.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9366 http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... e&start=15
Faust http://www.husaberg.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11115
there are others Plus my results but i'll stay out of it because it will be taken the wrong way :cry:
ok so if the OEM seated force is 100 lbs as claimed on taffys site then a 40% reduction in seated force is 60lbs. if its 140Lbs as hes claimed previously then a 40% reduction in seated force is 84 lbs (just over actual OEM seated force)
the actual seated force of the oem springs in a stock head with stock valves is measured by many at between 72 and 82 pounds. 40% reduction of that gives you 43 - 50 lbs which is where valve bounce starts and you don't want that :wink: minimum safe seated pressure is 60lbs.
the best a vendor of a DVSK that fits in our engines can currently claim is that the seated force is about the same as OEM and that is what most of them do.
the reason the conicals break is because over time they get shorter and their seated force isn't enough to stop resonating to death, thats why failure can be avoided by monitoring the seated force and adding preload to increase or maintain it.
FWIW the damping effect of the 2 springs in a DVSK rubbing together means you can run an even lower seated force than with a conical before you get bounce and standing waves in the springs. if you want to take advantage of that though then you need a set of springs that are short enough to install at that reduced preload.
the question ol taff will be asking is why then do dual valve springs reduce valve wear if the seated pressure is the same? .............. work that out and you'l be able to base a sales pitch on honesty and fact. he'll aslo have to admit to being wrong in this thread http://www.husaberg.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14997 I can explain it in numpty terms if you like Taffy, give me a call and have your credit card ready my rate is $1000 a day or part thereof :twisted:
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
Didn't want to poke the nest. It's been so quiet here lately. You, and many others have measured said springs and found similar values.
Another has measured said springs and had drastically different results. In the real world, if you get a different result you check again and find out why. If said result is still off greatly, you have another party check your work. If results are the same after the lab buddy has done same tests, they then don't publish their findings and scratch their heads.
Hi and low numbers get chucked out in the name of science.
On a side note, my bike is running great. I went on a long ride today and stopped at Mammoth Bar to rest and post.
Another has measured said springs and had drastically different results. In the real world, if you get a different result you check again and find out why. If said result is still off greatly, you have another party check your work. If results are the same after the lab buddy has done same tests, they then don't publish their findings and scratch their heads.
Hi and low numbers get chucked out in the name of science.
On a side note, my bike is running great. I went on a long ride today and stopped at Mammoth Bar to rest and post.
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
Excellent Photo!
looks like a very nice place to ride Idle, my adventuring bones are tingling, time to get a "trail bike" together
looks like a very nice place to ride Idle, my adventuring bones are tingling, time to get a "trail bike" together
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