Valve Adjustment Method, Vote for Yours!
- Thread starter steve
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As some of you know, I'm no expert or mechanic but I'm prepared to give anything a go. I did my valves by the 1/6th method and tightened with a ring spanner & cranked screwdriver holding the adjustment in place. After tightening if you grab the nut you should be just feel a tiny bit of slack and given that you've seen that the adjuster hasn't moved due to the ring spanner & screwdriver method, all's well in the world..(well mine anyway). See recent pics in my gallery, can't seem to upload images to posting?
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I've settled down with this technique also. I pull the rocker arm after adjustment to check for a small amount of give between fully down on the valve stem and the max upward movement. Crude, but seems to work as the bike has good power andd idels evenly.
Joined Jun 2005
449 Posts | 1+
Kings Farth
There must be a simpler way
What if you spin the flywheel and make marks at where the cam engagement ramps engage, have anyone tried that? Then if the setting move you can detect it by spinning the flywheel and compare with your previously made marks for exhaust and intake respectively. If left and right side differ, which can happen and does, you should be able to detect that too. It would take only moderate fingerspitz gefuehl.
Take off the tank and rocker adjuster lids when an adjustment is needed only. Then adjust to align with previously made flywheel marks.
Intakes spin ahead looking for the start of the roll on ramps, exhaust spin backwards detecting the start of the roll off ramps.
I have spun the flywheel and seen the difference before and after adjustment but have never made the marks to actually use the method to measure the lash. I'm tempted though to do so, since I'm lazy, but would still like to be on top of the valve lash. It seems to be a big difference on the flywheel for small differences on the lash. What could go wrong with this roll on roll off ramp method? Exept if you are all thumbs of course, in which case fingerspitzgefuehl does nicht apply.
( 9, no more German now!)
With the 1/x method you have to get in there and undo the adjusters to check it, not for the lazy.
With feeler gauges you have to get in there and you can find that they are pigs to use when the adjuster screw shoes (elephant feet) are dished, which they can be even when totally brand new.
Regards
What if you spin the flywheel and make marks at where the cam engagement ramps engage, have anyone tried that? Then if the setting move you can detect it by spinning the flywheel and compare with your previously made marks for exhaust and intake respectively. If left and right side differ, which can happen and does, you should be able to detect that too. It would take only moderate fingerspitz gefuehl.
Take off the tank and rocker adjuster lids when an adjustment is needed only. Then adjust to align with previously made flywheel marks.
Intakes spin ahead looking for the start of the roll on ramps, exhaust spin backwards detecting the start of the roll off ramps.
I have spun the flywheel and seen the difference before and after adjustment but have never made the marks to actually use the method to measure the lash. I'm tempted though to do so, since I'm lazy, but would still like to be on top of the valve lash. It seems to be a big difference on the flywheel for small differences on the lash. What could go wrong with this roll on roll off ramp method? Exept if you are all thumbs of course, in which case fingerspitzgefuehl does nicht apply.
( 9, no more German now!)With the 1/x method you have to get in there and undo the adjusters to check it, not for the lazy.
With feeler gauges you have to get in there and you can find that they are pigs to use when the adjuster screw shoes (elephant feet) are dished, which they can be even when totally brand new.
Regards
Chas said:
Sorry,I'd have to disagree chas.Having done more cars than I can count and a bike or three,the clearance "always" increases as the nut is torqued down and no two I've ever done were exactly the same.The only way it would be minimized is if you had an interference thread.Typically I find about .0005-.001"
valve adjustment ?
feeler gauges and having a good feel for my engine.the wife would tell me if it was wrong anyway !
feeler gauges and having a good feel for my engine.the wife would tell me if it was wrong anyway !
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
Re: There must be a simpler way
Smorgasboards Thinking outside the box, good work..... nice idea too I'll give it a go next time. if it works with some degree of accuracy i'll post a pic.
Regards
Smorgasbord said:
Smorgasboards Thinking outside the box, good work..... nice idea too I'll give it a go next time. if it works with some degree of accuracy i'll post a pic.
Regards
ford832 said:
What I meant to say was that the increase in clearance is finite and fixed. I have proven to myself with the aid of feeler gauges that the 1/6 turn method is more than consistent enough even when the potential variability due to 'slop' differences between adjuster nut and screw of different valves is taken into consideration.
Oh,well why didn't you just say that Chas? Seriously,I know that will work and be "ballpark" as there would be little discernable difference between say .011-.013 but what I'd be more interested in knowing the change from the previous adjustment as an early indicator of wear/failure.Mine are due to be checked so when I get a little time I'm going to go at them with the turn method,feeler gauges and dial indicator-just out of curiosity,
Seriously,I know that will work and be "ballpark" as there would be little discernable difference between say .011-.013 but what I'd be more interested in knowing the change from the previous adjustment as an early indicator of wear/failure.Mine are due to be checked so when I get a little time I'm going to go at them with the turn method,feeler gauges and dial indicator-just out of curiosity,Since I made the above post without ever having tried the 1/6 method I thought I would try out the 1/6 turn method this weekend when I put in a new set of rocker arms, and here is what I found. Keeping in mind that I have 185 hours on those valves, and the new valve adjusters.
Here's what I found: Set the valves using the 1/6 turn method, and there was no way the .005" or .12MM feeler gauge was going to go in there, which is what I usually set the lash at. And the .004" or .10MM feeler gauge was very tight on 3 of the 4 valves, and the 4th had what I would feel would be the correct feel for just using the .004" to set the lash.
So, it would appear that at least on my motor, the difference between the 1/6 method and just using feeler gauges is about .0015" on 3 of the 4 valves, and .001" on the last one. Normally, if I found the lash this tight with the .004" feeler gauge I would re adjust the valve lash. What I need now is an off set feeler gauge with a .003" on one end, and the .004" on the other, as opposed to my current .004" to .005". This way I will at least be able to use the .003" to gauge how much things have closed up when I can't get the .004" in there.
Here's what I found: Set the valves using the 1/6 turn method, and there was no way the .005" or .12MM feeler gauge was going to go in there, which is what I usually set the lash at. And the .004" or .10MM feeler gauge was very tight on 3 of the 4 valves, and the 4th had what I would feel would be the correct feel for just using the .004" to set the lash.
So, it would appear that at least on my motor, the difference between the 1/6 method and just using feeler gauges is about .0015" on 3 of the 4 valves, and .001" on the last one. Normally, if I found the lash this tight with the .004" feeler gauge I would re adjust the valve lash. What I need now is an off set feeler gauge with a .003" on one end, and the .004" on the other, as opposed to my current .004" to .005". This way I will at least be able to use the .003" to gauge how much things have closed up when I can't get the .004" in there.
ford832 said:Oh,well why didn't you just say that Chas?
The '1/6 turn' method provides an easy method for discerning valve recession, wear, etc. At the next valve check/adjustment, simply observe what fraction of a turn that it takes to gently bottom out the adjustment screw. For example, less than 1/6 turn indicates some valve recession and more than 1/6 turn indicates wear in other areas such as cam rocker roller tips or cam bearings.
Good info Daleo,thanks.Chas,you're assuming that the adjuster won't move when you loosen the locknut-which it always will to some degree no matter how steady you are..
Coastie said:
I always thought they were just a slightly better crayon so kids could more easily stay inside the lines in their colouring books.
Joined Jun 2005
449 Posts | 1+
Kings Farth
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
I took a couple of photos when I did my 650 last. Might help.
The tools I use are a cut up 10/11 ring spanner, a cut up ball end Allen key and a short screwdriver with a rubber doughnut so its easier to retrieve if it drops into the top end.
Get access to topend by removing tank and stuff. On my 501 I can do the job from the RHS but on the 650 the fan gets in the way so I do it from the LHS.
I give all the top of the motor a good clean. I use a bit of petrol and a paint/tooth brush and compressed air. Aerosol brake cleaner is good too, but can get expensive. If in Oz, Repco will do a deal on a box of 12 Motortech brand for less than $3 a can which is good value and it works just as good as the $10-15 stuff. Give the frame a good blast too as your hands and arms can dislodge stuff that can fall into the motor otherwise. Cleanliness is essential when a motor is open.
On the 650 I remove the breather and block off the lugs with some caps I had in the shed that fit. (I keep things just in case!!!)
If the plug cavity is clear, pull the plug, and the rocker covers. Use the normal Allen key to loosen and then the short ball end bit spinning between your finger tips to get the bolts fully out.
Now engage 6th gear and rotate the motor looking for TDC using the back wheel. As the intake closes, the piston rises to TDC. I use a plastic drinking straw down the plug hole. Absolute precision here is not essential, just get it to when it starts to fall again and going backwards is OK too with the back wheel.
Eyeball where the screw heads are, maybe even make a sketch, or take a digital photo for reference. Now have a feel, move the tappets up and down, and you may need to force it a bit to squeeze the oil out to feel your clearance.
Now back off the lock nuts on both tappets and back out both screws a turn or 2. They should spin easily else the threads have been deformed from over tightening previously. Clean fingers are best.
Now get the screw driver between your fingers and spin a tappet screw down until it just seats. Make sure the nut is not giving you a false reading. Do this a couple of times and until you are happy that it is nice and consistent. Your eye will tell you where the slot on the screw is angled. Now with one finger holding the nut almost seated, back the screw off 1/6 turn, 1 flat of the nut. You can eyeball this. Now still with the screw driver in the screw, seat the nut with your fingers, and lock it with the ring spanner.
Normally the screw will not turn using this method when locking it down. Do not over tighten. Easy to say, I know!
Now check visually, and feel the clearance you have. How does it compare with where you started? Now do the rest.
I use new gaskets about every 3rd or 4th time and use a real thin smear of adhesive grease as a sealant.
Remove straw, replace plug. I like a little anitsieze on the plug threads too.
Job's done and should be 1/2 hr max from beginning to end.
Steve
The tools I use are a cut up 10/11 ring spanner, a cut up ball end Allen key and a short screwdriver with a rubber doughnut so its easier to retrieve if it drops into the top end.
Get access to topend by removing tank and stuff. On my 501 I can do the job from the RHS but on the 650 the fan gets in the way so I do it from the LHS.
I give all the top of the motor a good clean. I use a bit of petrol and a paint/tooth brush and compressed air. Aerosol brake cleaner is good too, but can get expensive. If in Oz, Repco will do a deal on a box of 12 Motortech brand for less than $3 a can which is good value and it works just as good as the $10-15 stuff. Give the frame a good blast too as your hands and arms can dislodge stuff that can fall into the motor otherwise. Cleanliness is essential when a motor is open.
On the 650 I remove the breather and block off the lugs with some caps I had in the shed that fit. (I keep things just in case!!!)
If the plug cavity is clear, pull the plug, and the rocker covers. Use the normal Allen key to loosen and then the short ball end bit spinning between your finger tips to get the bolts fully out.
Now engage 6th gear and rotate the motor looking for TDC using the back wheel. As the intake closes, the piston rises to TDC. I use a plastic drinking straw down the plug hole. Absolute precision here is not essential, just get it to when it starts to fall again and going backwards is OK too with the back wheel.
Eyeball where the screw heads are, maybe even make a sketch, or take a digital photo for reference. Now have a feel, move the tappets up and down, and you may need to force it a bit to squeeze the oil out to feel your clearance.
Now back off the lock nuts on both tappets and back out both screws a turn or 2. They should spin easily else the threads have been deformed from over tightening previously. Clean fingers are best.
Now get the screw driver between your fingers and spin a tappet screw down until it just seats. Make sure the nut is not giving you a false reading. Do this a couple of times and until you are happy that it is nice and consistent. Your eye will tell you where the slot on the screw is angled. Now with one finger holding the nut almost seated, back the screw off 1/6 turn, 1 flat of the nut. You can eyeball this. Now still with the screw driver in the screw, seat the nut with your fingers, and lock it with the ring spanner.
Normally the screw will not turn using this method when locking it down. Do not over tighten. Easy to say, I know!
Now check visually, and feel the clearance you have. How does it compare with where you started? Now do the rest.
I use new gaskets about every 3rd or 4th time and use a real thin smear of adhesive grease as a sealant.
Remove straw, replace plug. I like a little anitsieze on the plug threads too.
Job's done and should be 1/2 hr max from beginning to end.
Steve
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