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Starting problems 1995 FC 501, Street Legal, SEM ingnition,

Hi guys.
I may be experiencing the same starting problems with my 2000 model FC600 as you've described.
When starting the bike from cold, I have to spend at least 10 minutes constantly kicking the bike over before she'll start.
Kicking the bike over itself isn't hard because the kickstart-mounted decompressor works perfectly, but kicking it over an over and over etc. soon has me puffing and panting.
The bike doesn't sound like it's even interested in starting, but will give a strong kick-back just before she's ready to go.
The kickback is bloody powerful and gives the sole of your foot a right whack, but if you keep kicking, she'll start in the next 2 or 3 strokes.
Once running, she motors like a good 'un and starts with 2 or 3 kicks when warm.
How should the automatic decompressor work?
I've also got a kickstart-mounter decompressor (no manual de-comp lever) and when the kickstart-mounted de-comp cable snapped, it was virtually impossible to turn the engine over, never mind kickstart it.
Is this correct?
Should the automatic decompressor enable the bike to be started even without the kickstart-operated decompressor?
I'm wondering if the timing may be slightly out as thorshammer described.
Could this also cause the strong kickback I've been experiencing?
I've asked the 'Kickback' question before and had some replies saying that it could caused by the idling screw set incorrectly on the carb, what do you think?
I'm a newcomer to big 4-stroke singles, so this may just be what they're like to start - I havn't got anytrhing else to compare them against!
Your input would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Ross
 
waberg mine was the same checked all electrics rebuilt carb checked cam timing still the same 20 min of kicking no start maybe one or two rearly hard kickbacks.so i stumbled across a post on the true tdc of your engine its in the owners docks done by taffy. i did mine and found my true tdc mark was 6 degrees out set the timing mark upto the new mark and it fires second kick every time hot or cold.might be worth a try. mine runs sweet now and realy pulls hard right through the range.
 
WAberg said:
Thor, Sparks

If the cam is retarded by a few degrees, the de-comp is not allowing compression until after 85 degrees before TDC. If there are approximately 12 teeth on the CAM shaft grear and I am half a tooth off as Thor found on his machine, that would mean that the de-comp is not out of the circuit until 70 degrees before TDC. ie the last 70 degrees is compressing the charge, not the last 85 degrees as in a perfect system.

WAberg

Hi WAberg

I’m no Taffy when it comes to writing into the forums, but I’ll try my best.

To me this is very simple.
Camshaft is retarded by a few degrees = Internal de-comp releasing the exhaust valve too early = Higher com-pressure before TDC = Lower crank speed on kick start = Less ignition spark = Hard start.

I take it your camshaft is out few degrees? One way of correcting it is to remove the cam sprocket and have bolt slots on it machined oval then you can have the cam set in true TDC. Or replace the cam chain maybe not guarantied fix. Be sure you torque the bolt to specification and apply lock-tide bolt-glue.

Not only was my bike easier to start after camshaft adjustment. Before I could only pull wheelies in third gear with little clutch help, and now I have no problem pulling wheelies in fifth gear. So there was big increase in torque and power.

I hope this helps
Regards
Thor
 
To me this is very simple.
Camshaft is retarded by a few degrees = Internal de-comp releasing the exhaust valve too early = Higher com-pressure before TDC = Lower crank speed on kick start = Less ignition spark = Hard start.

Thor

If the CAM is late on the power stroke, the exhaust valve will close late, and the compression will be lower because part of the piston stroke is wasted. In essence you loose compression ratio and hence loose power.

I can not imagin anything that would make the CAM early. If you shortened the CAM Crank distance, with the same number of teeth and the same size chain, the CAM would be retarded.

If the chain or sprockets were worn, that also would delay the CAM in relatinship to the crank.


Are you sure you did not advance the CAM in relationship to the Piston when you fixed it??

WAberg
 
WAberg said:
Thor

If the CAM is late on the power stroke, the exhaust valve will close late, and the compression will be lower because part of the piston stroke is wasted. In essence you loose compression ratio and hence loose power.

I can not imagin anything that would make the CAM early. If you shortened the CAM Crank distance, with the same number of teeth and the same size chain, the CAM would be retarded.

If the chain or sprockets were worn, that also would delay the CAM in relatinship to the crank.


Are you sure you did not advance the CAM in relationship to the Piston when you fixed it??

WAberg

WAberg


It just how I can put it, to early before TDC is same as late on the power stroke. I should have included before TDC there.

Camshaft is retarded by a few degrees = Internal de-comp releasing the exhaust valve too early *before TDC* = Higher com-pressure before TDC = Lower crank speed on kick start = Less ignition spark = Hard start.

Yes I did advance my camshaft. That will make the internal de-comp close or release exhaust valve later in the duration or closer to TDC. Making less com-pressure while kick starting. As soon as engine kicks to live the internal de-comp will be out of action.

I hope this will clarify the matter.
Regards
Thor
 
RossMcNish said:
Hi guys.
I may be experiencing the same starting problems with my 2000 model FC600 as you've described.
When starting the bike from cold, I have to spend at least 10 minutes constantly kicking the bike over before she'll start.
Kicking the bike over itself isn't hard because the kickstart-mounted decompressor works perfectly, but kicking it over an over and over etc. soon has me puffing and panting.
The bike doesn't sound like it's even interested in starting, but will give a strong kick-back just before she's ready to go.
The kickback is bloody powerful and gives the sole of your foot a right whack, but if you keep kicking, she'll start in the next 2 or 3 strokes.
Once running, she motors like a good 'un and starts with 2 or 3 kicks when warm.
How should the automatic decompressor work?
I've also got a kickstart-mounter decompressor (no manual de-comp lever) and when the kickstart-mounted de-comp cable snapped, it was virtually impossible to turn the engine over, never mind kickstart it.
Is this correct?
Should the automatic decompressor enable the bike to be started even without the kickstart-operated decompressor?
I'm wondering if the timing may be slightly out as thorshammer described.
Could this also cause the strong kickback I've been experiencing?
I've asked the 'Kickback' question before and had some replies saying that it could caused by the idling screw set incorrectly on the carb, what do you think?
I'm a newcomer to big 4-stroke singles, so this may just be what they're like to start - I havn't got anytrhing else to compare them against!
Your input would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Ross

Sorry I didn't want to ignore your post. However my findings are as I stated earlier in this post. Worn Cam-chain will result in Retarded camshaft (that is opposite of advance). Resulting into hard start. And the chain affect is as follows.

Camshaft is retarded by a few degrees:
= Internal de-comp releasing the exhaust valve too early before TDC
= Higher com-pressure before TDC
= Lower crank speed on kick start
= Less ignition spark
= Hard start.

Camshaft in correct TDC alignment:
= Internal de-comp releasing exhaust valve closer before TDC
= Less com-pressure before TDC
= Higher crank speed on kick start
= Grater ignition spark
= Easier start

To check your Camshaft in true TDC position, you can find how to do in the DOC's made by Taffy on this site.

I hope this will help
Regards
Thor
 
Thor, Sparks, and others,

In a fit of frustration I ordered a new CDI Coil. I installed it yesterday.

The bike starts fine...less than five kicks cold and first or second hot.

Sequence went as follows.

Bike hard to start....test everything possible...everything looks fine electrically.
Bike hard to start. Replace SEM stator.. No change in symptoms.
Bike hard to start. Have local Husaberg dealer clean carb. No change in symptoms.
Bike hard to start. Change 5K Spark plug cap. Bike actually started again, but still hard to start.

Throw up hands, yell, stomp, beat head against wall....bike still hard to start...don't feel qualified to rip off the valve cover to check cam timing...so I order the one part that never fails...

Install new CDI Coil...Bike starts less than 5 kicks cols and 2 or less hot.

Moral of the story...When you get to the point that you have fixed everything else, try the thing that "never" fails.

I talked to numerous people who told me that had never seen a CDI Coil fail, and in fact my CDI Coil did not actually fail. I could kick through and get a spark. However it must not have been a very hot spark.

CDI systems are made up of five parts.

1. An SCR (Silicon Controlled Rectifier) which acts as a switch. This is triggered by the Black Green 0.8 VAC pulse
2. A full wave rectifier which changes the 30+ VAC from the Black Red into DC current
3. A capacitor which stores the DC current charge from the full wave rectifier.
4. A spark coil.
5. A 5K Ohm resistive spark plug cap.

The capacitor stores the charge.
When the SCR fires, the charge in the capacitor is discharged through the primary of the spark coil.
That discharge results in about 40KV across the secondary of the Spark Coil.
The 5K Ohm resistive spark plug cap, slows down the spark...ie increases the duration..and also cuts down on the EMI...spark plug noise you can hear in an AM radio.

If the capacitor is old and leaky, the charge will tend to dissipate and there is less energy in the spark. If the insulation on the coil wire breaks down, some of the spark energy will be lost there. The SCR is probably biased with some resistors. If they have aged and are no longer the value they should be, they can make it harder for the SCR to reset.

bottom line...maybe the CDI coil never fails, but it can become weak and cause problems.

I want to thank all of you who have posted to this thread...and those who were gracious enough to talk to me on the telephone. I have learned a tremendous amount about my Husaberg.

As a by the by, I have had the IgniTech ignition on order for nearly a month...still have not seen the unit. If anyone else wants to go down that route you may want to check with me to see if I actually receive something. I will install it and give it a try just to let everyone know how it works. It should have the distinct benefit of only being dependent upon a fairly wimpy timing pulse...and of course a 12V battery

WAberg
 
hi

iv'e just been through the same rigmarole with my fs650, newly rewound stator from sparks, cam timing, valve adjustment, decomp adjustment, heavy hammer to the dam thing.

put a new cdi and whayhay starts every time 2-3 kicks,

just a pitty about all the hammer marks

paul
 

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