Need help....FX470

husa · Jul 11, 2004

Hi,

I really need a pro opinion...I'll make it short: last ride -hard start, strange was that it starts just a sec and die...I tried some carb adjustment, but nothing....today: same hard start...same....until it starts and after one min idle...strange noise (like something around timing chain) and I turn it off.... slowly with the kickstarter....moving maybe half way and stop...no way to turn over (also with decomp)
Facts: before -Al flakes in oil, flush the engine, now clean oil...I found only decomp really tide - this is the only problem I can see right now...but I don't understand what's happened.
I just got this bike - only three rides - and like I said was with dirty oil and Al pieces...
Or maybe timing chain?
Please any advice will help. Tomorrow I'll open it....
I had before an FE400E - stolen - during my birthday night, and now after over a year an engine failure...hmmm maybe the seller knew something...

t-jet-tim · Jul 11, 2004

Sounds like something in the timing chain.
Others have posted pics of disasters in this area.
Take it apart and hope for the best.(least expensive)

berger · Jul 11, 2004

Possible cam bearing failure? Pull the rocker cover off and take a look.

Taffy · Jul 12, 2004

ditto above and this would explain the hard starting.

Taffy

husa · Jul 12, 2004

berger said:
Possible cam bearing failure? Pull the rocker cover off and take a look.

I did that and looks like in this position (I cannot turn it), the exhaust is really tide and intakes with big play....?! Anyway looks like I have to go deeper...?
Like I said before any advice will help...and I appreciate...

maichusa · Jul 12, 2004

After about 25-30 hours on my FX470 one of the cam bearings broke. One off the balls from the bearing got stuck between the camchain and wheel. The rest were to be found on the head and two made their way to the lower part of the engine. All I could do with were two new bearings and a new chain.
Could be one bearing is on the edge of braking into pieces. Therefore it may start and then looses the correct timing and die. Just take the cover off and have a look/feel. Very easy and won't take long.
I though at first my engine seized so I came off fairly cheap this time, I hope yours won't be too bad also.

husa · Jul 12, 2004

maichusa said:
After about 25-30 hours on my FX470 one of the cam bearings broke. One off the balls from the bearing got stuck between the camchain and wheel. The rest were to be found on the head and two made their way to the lower part of the engine. All I could do with were two new bearings and a new chain.
Could be one bearing is on the edge of braking into pieces. Therefore it may start and then looses the correct timing and die. Just take the cover off and have a look/feel. Very easy and won't take long.
I though at first my engine seized so I came off fairly cheap this time, I hope yours won't be too bad also.

Yes I hope so....in fact I wrote about some noises like something around timing chain and can be few balls...also I didn't ride it at that moment, was at idle and I stoped it right away...I'm still on positive side and I'm waiting to arrive home...

t-jet-tim · Jul 12, 2004

I have about 25 hours on my FX470.I guess I better
take another look inside huh? 25 hours of trail riding
is only about 500 miles.These things should hold together
better that that.

BD · Jul 13, 2004

MAtbe I'm just lucky?

Maybe I should take a closer look as well. My 02 400 has about 50 hours, but no noises, (other than the normal), the valves seem to need only minor adjustments, and other than ignition haunts, everything seems to work fine. I've not even replaced the cam chain sprocket. Clutch is awesome. Where is the cam chain tensioner BTW? ........OK, I'll get the manual out......... :wink: BD

husa · Jul 13, 2004

maichusa said:
After about 25-30 hours on my FX470 one of the cam bearings broke. One off the balls from the bearing got stuck between the camchain and wheel. The rest were to be found on the head and two made their way to the lower part of the engine. All I could do with were two new bearings and a new chain.
Could be one bearing is on the edge of braking into pieces. Therefore it may start and then looses the correct timing and die. Just take the cover off and have a look/feel. Very easy and won't take long.
I though at first my engine seized so I came off fairly cheap this time, I hope yours won't be too bad also.

You are the man....
I found right side bearing broke and biensure...where are the balls? looks like 3-4 missing....
Please show me the way out 8O
I'm not sure what next step will be....take out the chain, first the tensioner...I hope I'll find those balls....and the most important I hope everything else is fine...
Thanks in advance.... :idea:

maichusa · Jul 13, 2004

Okay, that is the same bearing that broke on mine. Also look for the ball retainer, I found pieces of them stuck between the valve spring. I would suggest you get a " magnet on a stick" thing. Because I found one ball that was in a corner created by the casting. It was in the space where the chain goes through, front side. I unbolted the guide but you can't get this one out completely but you should have room enough. Also remove the clutch cover as you might find some parts there.
To know if you have all the balls, just count the number of balls on the bearing that is still intact. Have a look at the cam and chain for damage.
As mentioned it cost me just two bearings and a cam chain, from what it looks you have the same fortune!!
Regards.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that since one of the ball got stuck between the chain it bent the little bolt that holds the chainguide. It is at the top, rear of the head. So you might want to have a close look here also.

husa · Jul 13, 2004

maichusa said:
Okay, that is the same bearing that broke on mine. Also look for the ball retainer, I found pieces of them stuck between the valve spring. I would suggest you get a " magnet on a stick" thing. Because I found one ball that was in a corner created by the casting. It was in the space where the chain goes through, front side. I unbolted the guide but you can't get this one out completely but you should have room enough. Also remove the clutch cover as you might find some parts there.
To know if you have all the balls, just count the number of balls on the bearing that is still intact. Have a look at the cam and chain for damage.
As mentioned it cost me just two bearings and a cam chain, from what it looks you have the same fortune!!
Regards.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that since one of the ball got stuck between the chain it bent the little bolt that holds the chainguide. It is at the top, rear of the head. So you might want to have a close look here also.

good...now I have an idea....where I can find those balls.
Cam and chain looks fine, the ball retainer is stilll there...in bad condition, but in one piece. Now I'll count the balls....

BTW I have to order two bearings....or maybe the chain too?

maichusa · Jul 13, 2004

Maybe to be on the safe side a new chain. Since it turned a few times with the bearing out, the camsprocket wasn't in line and the chain might have gotten some sideway force on the links. But in honesty I am not sure if it must be renewed, I would do it. On mine one ball was jammed between the links and leaved a mark on the roller so I renewed it.

husa · Jul 13, 2004

maichusa said:
Maybe to be on the safe side a new chain. Since it turned a few times with the bearing out, the camsprocket wasn't in line and the chain might have gotten some sideway force on the links. But in honesty I am not sure if it must be renewed, I would do it. On mine one ball was jammed between the links and leaved a mark on the roller so I renewed it.

I'm thinking about new one...how much can be?

maichusa · Jul 13, 2004

Don't know US prices. I had it done about a year ago so I am not too sure about following either but I thought I had the chain and rivet link, some o-rings, a clutch cover gasket and a seal for the waterpump for 50 Euro (about 60-65 USD).

Splat · Jul 13, 2004

t-jet-tim said:
I have about 25 hours on my FX470.I guess I better
take another look inside huh? 25 hours of trail riding
is only about 500 miles.These things should hold together
better that that.

My 501 has 1000 miles on the odometer, about 65 hours. I recently pulled the cylinder head cover to inspect the rockers and bearings. The bearings are tight, but there is a little play in the rocker shaft.

Remember, these are race engines with a high lift radical profile cam with roller rockers. They aren't Honda Civics. They require a lot more maintenance. Any one with roller rocker experience in a car engine would experience the same life span of the rollers.

Splat · Jul 13, 2004

maichusa said:
Okay, that is the same bearing that broke on mine. Also look for the ball retainer, I found pieces of them stuck between the valve spring. I would suggest you get a " magnet on a stick" thing. Because I found one ball that was in a corner created by the casting.....

I presume that you removed the engine from the frame?

When my son's CRF engine grenaded (sucked a valve and shatterered the piston), I filled the engine with paint thinner and shook it vigorously. Dumped the liquid in a bucket, refilled and repeated. By the third time all pieces were flushed out and then I refilled with cheap oil and shook it and drained it one more time. Much easier than splitting cases to look for all the little pieces. The paint thinner broke down the oil quickly and all the metal pieces flushed right out without sticking to the good parts. Cost = $2.00 for 1 gallon of thinner.

maichusa · Jul 13, 2004

No, I left the engine in. But I did let the engine run with some fresh oil and did an oil change two times without riding the bike.This way I figured I would get the rest out.

Carl · Jul 14, 2004

Don't' worry if you can't find all of the retainer. It is soft and will get chewed up without damaging the gears. However, you MUST find all of the balls. Count the number on the other bearing and make sure you get them all.

They will either be in the clutch cover, cam area, or in the tranny. Fish around in the tranny with a small telescoping magnet. You should not need to remove engine. Carefully examine cam gear and chain for evidence of a ball going around the sprocket. If so then replace chain.

This happened to my 94, found all the balls but retainer was gone, no problems after repair. Also , be sure to get the C3 grade bearings.

husa · Jul 14, 2004

The engine is in place...the chain looks good. Now I have to order bearings....where ? dealer or Internet?
I'm still thinking about valves...how can I check them, now...after I'll change bearings and put back everything will be easy, but maybe too late...
I don't understand how this happened - usually a bearing first got play and after...

Need help....FX470

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