Husaberg/KTM hybrid engine

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.5mm is very little.......i think you might be able to pull that one off just fine......on my chain it would only out 6-7 clicks and had 15 clicks or so to be maxxed out, i have heard of new chains coming in and being longer than the original which could pose a problem. in fact i though some of the chains were so long in comparison they were almost maxxed out at new......maybe thing to research for you, when i did my rebuild i left the old chain in for this reason, the older dark link regina timing chains were a great chain i have been told.......just do you research on which ones are the best
 
regarding the oil pump, my 94 600 has a oil pump so im guessing all the 600's had them . also about the crank my 94 600 has the full circle crank so i think you are right about it being 94-96.

cheers kris
 
kris650berg said:
regarding the oil pump, my 94 600 has a oil pump so im guessing all the 600's had them . also about the crank my 94 600 has the full circle crank so i think you are right about it being 94-96.

cheers kris
Click to expand...

kris are you sure that engine is the orignal one??? in the owners doc it states that 1997 was the first year of the oil pump and also i have the original 1997 sale brochure that says oil pump under the "new" features section.............either way its easy enough for him to know if he has one, he can just look in the 9-10 oclock position behind the clutch... if he has a plastic gear and the triangle pump housing is held to the main case with 3 little screws behind the plastic gear then he has one :cheers:
 
hi bergini

thanks for indication of were the oil pump is but i am an experienced mechanic ( of motorcycles and cars ) an i know what an oil pump is.
i am 100% my 94 600 has an oil pump as i had to replace the oil pump gears when my kick start sledge fell out and got chewed up in the gearbox causing big pieces of steel to run through my oil pump .

i can post my engine number here if you have a way of reading the year from it ?

maybe you could be right about it being a different engine but its in an original 94 600 chassis aswell.
also it has the full cicle crank and didnt the 97 on have the pork chop crank??

hahaha you have got me thinking now though , ill be up half the night now researching to find out exactly what year my engine is lol.

cheers kris
 
Bergini said:
.5mm is very little.......i think you might be able to pull that one off just fine......on my chain it would only out 6-7 clicks and had 15 clicks or so to be maxxed out, i have heard of new chains coming in and being longer than the original which could pose a problem. in fact i though some of the chains were so long in comparison they were almost maxxed out at new......maybe thing to research for you, when i did my rebuild i left the old chain in for this reason, the older dark link regina timing chains were a great chain i have been told.......just do you research on which ones are the best
Click to expand...

I just caught your thread on your timing chain issue. If I remember correctly, my engine has a base gasket (it's been a while since I took it apart) and the answer may just be to remove the gasket and test fit with a new timing chain hoping that it won't be too loose.

Needless to say, this engine will go together several times before it actually runs.
 
thorgan said:
just caught your thread on your timing chain issue. If I remember correctly, my engine has a base gasket (it's been a while since I took it apart) and the answer may just be to remove the gasket and test fit with a new timing chain hoping that it won't be too loose.

Needless to say, this engine will go together several times before it actually runs.
Click to expand...

haha, yea that sucked.... just remember during your calculations that the timing chain passes that gasket/surface twice, so if you take out the gasket or remove .5mm, the timing chain will be affected twice as much as the gasket or .10mm....either way i think you will be ok unless you get one of those longer than stock timing chains........

kris
I have no doubt about your mechanical/electrical skills and i see why you thought that whole paragraph was directed to you but only the first part of that paragraph was supposed to be directed to you and the second half to thorgan in case he hadnt taken the oil pump apart yet and overlooked at as an idler or something although he seems to know what he is doing too :lol: i have edited it and added punctuation to make it more clear............ i thought i remmeber there being a distinct way to decode the engine number but i dont remember off hand ill have to take a look at mine and see if i can remember, ill post back here if i figure it out again. i am sure i remember 1997 as the first year of the oil pump though...... unless you have a prototype or something and knowing ealry husabergs that wouldnt surprise me that much either....
:cheers: :cheers
 
bergini
my engine nimber is 1121025 i have not found how to de-code yet ,but if you do remember please let me know im very curious now.

thorgon

i will be watching this thread all the way its very interesting , its great to see there is a light at the end of the tunnel these old girls are near impossible to get con rods for and this looks like a good slution.

cheers kris
 
So, 2 months have gone by and still the crank has not been machined. My machinist friend has been working 50 to 60 hour weeks and has no time for my project. Plus, whenever he is available, I take every opportunity to get him out riding for the sake of his sanity - jobless alcoholic brother living with him, working too much, etc.

However, I had another idea yesterday that might help the cam chain/tensioner situation. I also have a KTM 250 SX-F that's suffering an oil leak at the cam chain tensioner and, in an effort to understand everything that might cause a leak, I was looking at a schematic of the engine. Many newer engines, including this 250 KTM engine, have plastic chain guides (blades) on both the tensioner side and the side opposite the tensioner. Then I thought that, maybe I should just use an original Husaberg 95mm piston (instead of the KTM piston which has a .5mm higher compression height but valve cutouts that don't apear to match the Husaberg valve spacing). Then machine a full 1mm off of the height of the cylinder in order to match the 1mm shorter rod length and, if the chain is too loose for the tensioner to compensate, I can somehow mount a plastic chain guide blade to the cylinder on the side opposite the tensioner.

Going to take another look at the cylinder and cases for a suitable location to mount the additional chain guide.
 
Ok, so it took a few more months than I had anticipated (the machine shop got REALLY busy and Rodger was working 60 hour weeks) but the crank machining is finally done. Results:

i-Lpp8Btk-XL.jpg


i-LZnwNNm-XL.jpg
 
As a reminder of where I stand, the KTM 525 rod is only 1 mm shorter than the Husaberg 600 rod so it was chosen as the candidate for this despite the fact that it rides on a 35mm crank pin (vs the 30mm pin of the 600) and the rod big end is 3.91mm wider. So, the crank machining involved opening the rod pin bore to fit the KTM pin and creating a countersink that accommodates the wider KTM rod.

Now for a little math to see if I've weakened the press fit by creating this counterbore. The crank is about 21.2mm thick in the area of the rod pin. I say "about" because there's a step towards the outside diameter of the crank that increases the crank thickness. Going to ignore this for the time being.

With the stock rod pin being 30mm in diameter, the amount of surface area in the press fit is 2*pi*r*h=1998 square mm of press fit per crank half.

With the KTM rod and the counterbore, the same calculation yields 2116 square mm of press fit per crank half.

Keeping my fingers crossed...

More updates soon once the crank gets pressed and trued (and welded if necessary).

Tom
 
Very slow progress...but progress, nonetheless. Here's a KTM 525 rod, KTM crank pin, and a KTM 525 piston mocked up in a Husaberg bottom end with a FC600 crank (machined to fit the KTM pin).

i-X3bKrvM-XL.jpg


i-tPW4QCB-XL.jpg


The press fit on the crank is a little on the light side so I'm definitely going to have it welded.

Near as I can tell, without torquing the head bolts down onto the cylinder with some sort of torque plate that allows access to measure the squish height (maybe I'll use some spacers), the piston is about .030" or .76mm below the deck. I expect that will give me a very low compression ratio. Trying to decide if I care for this engine which is basically just a prototype to prove the concept. If it runs at all, I'll be happy.
 
You bet I'm still at it. Turns out the original rod from this engine is actually in great shape. Going to keep it for the other 600 engine I have that needs work. Getting ideas for that one now. Maybe bore it to 97mm and use a high compression RFS piston that's machined a tad for just the right squish height...but I digress.
 
Yes, I'm still moving along on this project very...VERY slowly. I received my Iwis cam chain from Taffy over a month ago and finally had a minute to mock it all up. I was hoping that the chain would be tighter so I could mill some height off of the cylinder and get my squish band back to the clearance it should be. Well, counting the clicks on the tensioner...and I'm using 14 of the 16 clicks! The engine had no base gasket when I took it apart so that's the way I've mocked it up. And before anyone tells me to put a base gasket in it to space it up, since I'm running the KTM RFS rod and piston, I'm already .5mm farther down in the hole at top dead center than stock. A base gasket will make this worse.

So, is a cam chain like a drive chain where you really should change both sprockets at the same time as the chain? They definitely appear to have significant wear. I'm assuming that a KTM cam sprocket will fit and I think I've seen them in steel. What about the crank sprocket? Maybe with all three brand new (2 sprockets and a chain), I'll be back on track.

I also looked at the tensioner blade and it's got minimal wear. Not that this would fix the problem. You can only tension the chain so much before it starts contacting the cylinder.

Anyone have some wisdom for me?

 
Hi

I like this build :cheers: :cheers:

the KTM cam chain and sprockets are narrower although the cam sprocket does indeed fit on the shaft.

the newer husaberg cam sprocket is steel # 80036011100

sparks got a Regina cam chain once that was so tight he had to send it back

weed shaved 1mm off the top of his cases and relocated the camshaft 1mm higher in the head so he could use a different piston. welding and re boring the bearing tunnel.

he didn't have the Water pump on the cam though

it won't help with the cam chain but I have seen a pic of a KTM factory head where the combustion chamber protruded down into the bore like a circular boss, the sealing surface of the head had been machined away.

cheers
Bushie
 
Thanks for the tips Bushie!

Another option I've been looking into for overcoming the 1mm shorter KTM rod is a KTM 565cc piston that has a 24.5mm compression height (Wossner P/N 8583DA). Only problem is this piston is for a 100mm bore. I know this is a common modification to fit a 100mm piston in the KTM but does anyone know how difficult it would be to make the early Husaberg bore 100mm? I like the idea of a 660cc gen 1 Husaberg engine especially with the larger 35mm KTM big end bearing and pin.

I can't imagine that it would be too difficult because I have a KTM 525 cylinder sitting on my bench and, with the exception of the second coolant fitting on the KTM piece, they're almost identical.
 
hi Thorgen

I would call Travis at thumperracing and have a chat to him about sleeving a berg barrel to 99 or 100mm

http://www.thumperracing.net/

he may also have a piston of the right height for your current bore or an RFS barrel may just fit straight on

i have a heap of pictures of the different RFS barrels will try to find them

the KTM RFS engine has so many possibilities of bore and stroke its rediculous so it can't hurt to ask

tell him Bushmechanic sent you, he'll double all the prices :D

Cheers
Bushie
 

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