HUSABERG/KTM EFI TECH BULLETIN/UPDATE
- Thread starter cleoent
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Quote: "KTM recommends injectors be replaced every 20 hours to ensure proper performance."
I don't even own a FI bike, but reading that pisses me off. Did he just make that up, or is that the factory recommended replacement schedule? Anyone with a 2011 manual care to look it up?
It's nice that they are doing the update/recall though.
I don't even own a FI bike, but reading that pisses me off. Did he just make that up, or is that the factory recommended replacement schedule? Anyone with a 2011 manual care to look it up?
It's nice that they are doing the update/recall though.
Great information, not sure about the injector replacement hours! Maybe they meant TWO thousand hours. The fuel system all parts involved with Fuel Injection should have NO issues for AT LEAST fifty thousand miles, compared with fuel injected in are four wheeled vehicles some going two hundred thousand mile with their original components.
I’m not a fan of the small cone filter before the injector, to small, to restrictive. The PROFILL filter along with their sock pump filter and the in tank filter after the pump should keep the injector free of small injector nozzle plugging particles for at least fifty thousand miles IF YOU are careful when disconnecting the fuel line!! THERE are other things that will reduce fuel nozzle pressure and affect the spray pattern. Old fuel(more than two weeks) and the chemistry of poor quality fuel will cause nozzle plugging or pressure drop. Read some of my post on fuel injector cleaners. This stuff helps with the waxy chemical deposit in the nozzle port holes, NOT dirt!!
Read about Star Tron, I have lab tested and field tested Star Tron, it does help with phase separation, a little.
Ethanol, many articles on the web informing users,
Get informed, It helps
Contact the major oil companies and let your local dealer know of your feelings about ethanol, not sure what else we can do. I can buy Phillips 66 with no ethanol in are area, hope it stays this way.
You can thank the government for ethanol and all the greedy people involved!!
I’m not a fan of the small cone filter before the injector, to small, to restrictive. The PROFILL filter along with their sock pump filter and the in tank filter after the pump should keep the injector free of small injector nozzle plugging particles for at least fifty thousand miles IF YOU are careful when disconnecting the fuel line!! THERE are other things that will reduce fuel nozzle pressure and affect the spray pattern. Old fuel(more than two weeks) and the chemistry of poor quality fuel will cause nozzle plugging or pressure drop. Read some of my post on fuel injector cleaners. This stuff helps with the waxy chemical deposit in the nozzle port holes, NOT dirt!!
Read about Star Tron, I have lab tested and field tested Star Tron, it does help with phase separation, a little.
Ethanol, many articles on the web informing users,
Get informed, It helps
Contact the major oil companies and let your local dealer know of your feelings about ethanol, not sure what else we can do. I can buy Phillips 66 with no ethanol in are area, hope it stays this way.
You can thank the government for ethanol and all the greedy people involved!!
The official Husaberg factory mechanics in Austria unfortunately told me the same thing about the injector not being cleanable. But of course the 20 hour injector replacement interval is completely nuts. 8O
If you fit a Profill KTM0001 inlet strainer, a Profill HUS01 pump filter (only needed if you have a pre-2012 bike), Can-Am inline filter instead of the quick release, and the new grey version of the pre-injector filter (doesn't get clogged up as easily as the earlier black version) and you should be good to go for 100s of hours.
If you fit a Profill KTM0001 inlet strainer, a Profill HUS01 pump filter (only needed if you have a pre-2012 bike), Can-Am inline filter instead of the quick release, and the new grey version of the pre-injector filter (doesn't get clogged up as easily as the earlier black version) and you should be good to go for 100s of hours.
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"KTM recommends injectors be replaced every 20 hours to ensure proper performance."
Jeez, I can't believe I just read that!
Looking at the factory service manual for the '09/10 Husabergs it lists changeing things like main bearings, conrod bearings, camshaft bearings etc at 45 or 90hrs for competition and 'hobby' use respectively but the injector isn't even mentioned!! Have they used a different injector on the later bikes?
Roadbikes can and do go many 1000's of miles with no issues. The biggest enemy of dirt bikes is DIRT! so if you filter the fuel efficiently BEFORE it goes in the tank ( I'm a big fan of the tank sock) I can see no reason why a Husa shouldn't do the same. JMO
Jeez, I can't believe I just read that!
Looking at the factory service manual for the '09/10 Husabergs it lists changeing things like main bearings, conrod bearings, camshaft bearings etc at 45 or 90hrs for competition and 'hobby' use respectively but the injector isn't even mentioned!! Have they used a different injector on the later bikes?
Roadbikes can and do go many 1000's of miles with no issues. The biggest enemy of dirt bikes is DIRT! so if you filter the fuel efficiently BEFORE it goes in the tank ( I'm a big fan of the tank sock) I can see no reason why a Husa shouldn't do the same. JMO
The Mikuni throttle body on these bikes looks like it came off a Suzuki Hayabusa. I can't imagine any good reason the injector on a 'Berg would fare any differently working with the same crappy gas that a Hayabusa and any number of other fuel injected bikes and cars. Filter the fuel well via a Golan (cleanable and reusable 10 micron filter) or our standby Can-Am part and rock on. The only other factor I can think of is rubber fuel hose that does not play well with Ethanol. Starting to wonder about that.
60 hours trouble free here, with the bad black made in China pump no less. Perhaps I should go buy a Powerball ticket!
60 hours trouble free here, with the bad black made in China pump no less. Perhaps I should go buy a Powerball ticket!
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Yeah, I'm gonna replace my injector every 20 hours when I win the friggin lottery. What a bunch of crap. I've put over 40 hours on m 2011 FE570 in four months. So no I'm supposed to change an injector every other month, and probably every month during the warmer months. If that is a for real replacement reccomendation, it came from some engineer who rides his electric scooter to work and has no idea at all about riding motorcycles in the real world.
I'm planning an extended trip on the Hussy which will be over 5000 miles in length in 2013, I'm not sure my luggage can hold all the injectors I'll need for that one.
Serious BS factor to all of this and an example of poor engineering. Let me see, how long has ethanol been in gasoline? Duh, let's design a fuel system that doesn't like ethenol and then just try to blame the fuel. REALLY? HOW ABOUT BUILD A QUALITY PRODUCT, and STAND BEHIND THE PRODUCT.
I love the hussy, and I've loved my KTM before this, but this type of stuff is agravating. I don't know why I'm pissed, because I've had great luck with my bike. Still, I'm pissed for everyone else, heck I'm probably Irish somewhere in the family line, maybe I just like being pissed. :angry:
I'm planning an extended trip on the Hussy which will be over 5000 miles in length in 2013, I'm not sure my luggage can hold all the injectors I'll need for that one.
Serious BS factor to all of this and an example of poor engineering. Let me see, how long has ethanol been in gasoline? Duh, let's design a fuel system that doesn't like ethenol and then just try to blame the fuel. REALLY? HOW ABOUT BUILD A QUALITY PRODUCT, and STAND BEHIND THE PRODUCT.
I love the hussy, and I've loved my KTM before this, but this type of stuff is agravating. I don't know why I'm pissed, because I've had great luck with my bike. Still, I'm pissed for everyone else, heck I'm probably Irish somewhere in the family line, maybe I just like being pissed. :angry:
All,
I agree, the 20 hour thing seems laughable at best for those of us with hundreds of hours on our bikes.
I do like the idea of the star tron additive eating the ethanol. The problem with ethanol is several fold........
I was very happy to have found fuel with no ethanol in it in Gunnison this last summer, and it is still in my bike........sad, but, true, haven't ridden since then.
#1 it binds with water, that's why you seen all the indy car races with 5 gallon buckets of water for pit fires etc.....since those cars are ethanol fueled, when there is a spill and a fire the fire is invisible, and once they seem someone jumping around they ****** them with water, and the water instantly dilutes the ethanol and no more fire. Remember the old "fuel system water remover" you could buy? It was just ethanol or methanol, and would bond with any water in your gas tank and allow it to flow through the fuel system.
#2. Since it binds with water, water then flows through your fuel system, and the injector at high pressure. It is in my opinion the water in the fuel that is what is so corrosive. And since there is water now suspended in the fuel, and when your bike sits for any length of time, the water that is now in suspension, is sitting on parts of your fuel system that can be corroded by oxygen.
#3. Ehtanol has only 76K BTU per gallon. Gasoline (base product) is 114k BTU per gallon. So, if one is mixing Ethanol which has less power with gasoline which has more power or energy per gallon, there is a reduction in the amount of energy that can be released in a given volume of fuel since the original amount of power/energy per a given volume of gasoline has been reduced. That is why reformulated gasoline, which has ethanol added to it to help reduce emissions, has a BTU value of 111.8K BTU. The oxygenating values of ethanol should be considered, BUT, one has to increase, the amount of fuel delivered to offset the lower BTU value of ethanol to take advantage of this.
The short story here is that as fuels have been re formulated to decrease emissions, the energy value has dropped, the cost of fuel has risen due to increased "work" at the refinery, and the MPG drops, thus exacerbating the problem of higher fuel cost, and reduced mileage.
Best thing you can do is keep your tank full so it doesn't breath as much as a empty or half tank. Gasoline is a non compress able substance, and therefore, it expands and contracts very little with heat/cold cycling. Whereas the air or atmosphere in your tank is a gas which is compress able, and therefore expands and contracts a great deal with the changes in temperature. If your gas tank is empty, with each day the tank will warm up with the ambient temp and vent outwards, then overnight it will cool and draw atmosphere in, this is where the problem begins. This outside air has water vapor in it, the water is more dense than the fuel vapor in the tank, and will therefore fall out to the bottom of this vapor due to its higher specific gravity. Another solution is to just put a different outlet on your cap or tank vent, that is plugged off to keep this from happening. I do this when I transport my bikes in my toy hauler to keep gas vapors to a minimum.
Keep your fuel in a METAL container to reduce the light ends permeating the plastic gas tank, which results in degradation, remember this is why all the EPA legal bikes now come with black, or sealed gas tanks, with a one way check valve on the tank vent. And, use a simple paint pot filter or something like it when filling your gas can to keep the crap out of the gas can, and use the pro fill filter to keep any other crap out of your tank.
As with carb'd bikes, don't let your bike sit for extended periods with out running them. This is when varnish develops as the fuel evaporates and leaves behind those elements which do not evaporate. Start your bike regularly and warm it up fully, give it a few wide open whacks of the throttle to help keep things clean. Most of the fuels you buy from the pump these days has a lot of detergents in them, the best being Techroline. I also always leave my bike on TDC on the compression stroke to keep the cylinder closed up tight to keep rust formation to a minimum.
Remember,the fuel we are now running in our bikes, was developed for motor vehicles that get used regularly, and therefore was not developed with long term storage in mind, since its goal was to reduce emissions for the mass of vehicles used everyday.
If you are going to store your bike for the winter, a product like "Sea foam" is a good idea to put a film of oil in your cylinder while it sits out the winter. Amsoil also makes a great fuel storage additive.
I have said this before, and will say it again now, KTM/Husaberg are not the only ones having this problem, they just take care of it as opposed to other companies.
I agree, the 20 hour thing seems laughable at best for those of us with hundreds of hours on our bikes.
I do like the idea of the star tron additive eating the ethanol. The problem with ethanol is several fold........
I was very happy to have found fuel with no ethanol in it in Gunnison this last summer, and it is still in my bike........sad, but, true, haven't ridden since then.
#1 it binds with water, that's why you seen all the indy car races with 5 gallon buckets of water for pit fires etc.....since those cars are ethanol fueled, when there is a spill and a fire the fire is invisible, and once they seem someone jumping around they ****** them with water, and the water instantly dilutes the ethanol and no more fire. Remember the old "fuel system water remover" you could buy? It was just ethanol or methanol, and would bond with any water in your gas tank and allow it to flow through the fuel system.
#2. Since it binds with water, water then flows through your fuel system, and the injector at high pressure. It is in my opinion the water in the fuel that is what is so corrosive. And since there is water now suspended in the fuel, and when your bike sits for any length of time, the water that is now in suspension, is sitting on parts of your fuel system that can be corroded by oxygen.
#3. Ehtanol has only 76K BTU per gallon. Gasoline (base product) is 114k BTU per gallon. So, if one is mixing Ethanol which has less power with gasoline which has more power or energy per gallon, there is a reduction in the amount of energy that can be released in a given volume of fuel since the original amount of power/energy per a given volume of gasoline has been reduced. That is why reformulated gasoline, which has ethanol added to it to help reduce emissions, has a BTU value of 111.8K BTU. The oxygenating values of ethanol should be considered, BUT, one has to increase, the amount of fuel delivered to offset the lower BTU value of ethanol to take advantage of this.
The short story here is that as fuels have been re formulated to decrease emissions, the energy value has dropped, the cost of fuel has risen due to increased "work" at the refinery, and the MPG drops, thus exacerbating the problem of higher fuel cost, and reduced mileage.
Best thing you can do is keep your tank full so it doesn't breath as much as a empty or half tank. Gasoline is a non compress able substance, and therefore, it expands and contracts very little with heat/cold cycling. Whereas the air or atmosphere in your tank is a gas which is compress able, and therefore expands and contracts a great deal with the changes in temperature. If your gas tank is empty, with each day the tank will warm up with the ambient temp and vent outwards, then overnight it will cool and draw atmosphere in, this is where the problem begins. This outside air has water vapor in it, the water is more dense than the fuel vapor in the tank, and will therefore fall out to the bottom of this vapor due to its higher specific gravity. Another solution is to just put a different outlet on your cap or tank vent, that is plugged off to keep this from happening. I do this when I transport my bikes in my toy hauler to keep gas vapors to a minimum.
Keep your fuel in a METAL container to reduce the light ends permeating the plastic gas tank, which results in degradation, remember this is why all the EPA legal bikes now come with black, or sealed gas tanks, with a one way check valve on the tank vent. And, use a simple paint pot filter or something like it when filling your gas can to keep the crap out of the gas can, and use the pro fill filter to keep any other crap out of your tank.
As with carb'd bikes, don't let your bike sit for extended periods with out running them. This is when varnish develops as the fuel evaporates and leaves behind those elements which do not evaporate. Start your bike regularly and warm it up fully, give it a few wide open whacks of the throttle to help keep things clean. Most of the fuels you buy from the pump these days has a lot of detergents in them, the best being Techroline. I also always leave my bike on TDC on the compression stroke to keep the cylinder closed up tight to keep rust formation to a minimum.
Remember,the fuel we are now running in our bikes, was developed for motor vehicles that get used regularly, and therefore was not developed with long term storage in mind, since its goal was to reduce emissions for the mass of vehicles used everyday.
If you are going to store your bike for the winter, a product like "Sea foam" is a good idea to put a film of oil in your cylinder while it sits out the winter. Amsoil also makes a great fuel storage additive.
I have said this before, and will say it again now, KTM/Husaberg are not the only ones having this problem, they just take care of it as opposed to other companies.
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- Dec 5, 2010
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- Location
- Yorkshire UK
DaleEO said:
Agree 100% except for this bit. Far better to run the bike out of fuel if it's not going to be used for at least 2-3 months. With the EFI bikes I'd be tempted to drain the hose to the injector to get all the fuel out of there as the engine will stall long before the pipe is empty. Starting the bike periodically does nothing except generate large amounts of condensation inside the engine. Letting the bike tickover to full operating temp with a few tweaks of the throttle will not get rid of this condensation. A run of at least 10 miles under load is needed. Most boat chandlers sell misting oil in aerosol form for use on outboard motors. This is ideal for cylinder protection and quick and easy to use. JMO
the funny thing is,my old 09 could be sat around at 2-3 months at a time,all i did is press the button & go
i bought another 09 which was allmost 3yrs old which had 70 miles on it (so the orignal fuel from new & been sat around for yrs) & pressed the button & go..i must of been lucky!
i bought another 09 which was allmost 3yrs old which had 70 miles on it (so the orignal fuel from new & been sat around for yrs) & pressed the button & go..i must of been lucky!
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- Messages
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- Location
- Yorkshire UK
Currently, here in the UK petrol contains only 5% ethanol so it's not so much of a problem as in other countries which allow up to 20%.
Tanks for the info Dale. I have a trip in Moab planned for late April and I want to NOT be the guy who gets stranded.
Question, aside from all this, is if my battery dies, can i still bump start it or am I totally dead in the water? I didn't know if the fuel pump would prime the system (pressurize) and so I"d be stuck? I'm getting a battery tender, some fuel stabilizer and will be calling my deal Monday to see what they will do for me under this "recall" you've written about here.
So far for me, no issues. I've added the 70 degree tank, fan kit, wrapped the header, lined the tank, removed the ball valve (haven't done the in-line one way fuel valve yet) and then a bunch of other mods unrelated to head/fuel issues...
I do not want to be 100 miles from camp and crap out.
Thanks!!
Question, aside from all this, is if my battery dies, can i still bump start it or am I totally dead in the water? I didn't know if the fuel pump would prime the system (pressurize) and so I"d be stuck? I'm getting a battery tender, some fuel stabilizer and will be calling my deal Monday to see what they will do for me under this "recall" you've written about here.
So far for me, no issues. I've added the 70 degree tank, fan kit, wrapped the header, lined the tank, removed the ball valve (haven't done the in-line one way fuel valve yet) and then a bunch of other mods unrelated to head/fuel issues...
I do not want to be 100 miles from camp and crap out.
Thanks!!
I've only ever used BP ultimate, which is a 98 octane fuel with no ethanol in my berg.
170 hours on the bike, and the fuel pump / filter has been flawless.
Im not totally sure whats its like in other countries but this fuel is readily available at almost all petrol stations near me.
Has anyone had these issues with their bike while using high octane 0% ethanol fuels?
170 hours on the bike, and the fuel pump / filter has been flawless.
Im not totally sure whats its like in other countries but this fuel is readily available at almost all petrol stations near me.
Has anyone had these issues with their bike while using high octane 0% ethanol fuels?
BlueDevil said:
I have started my FE 390 with a battery that could not turn the motor over. Attached will show you how to start the bike if you can not push start due to leaves or mud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJZxfSbJB7U&feature=player_embedded
As a side, there may be something to the LI batteries (have the weight and twice the CCA).
Todd
fakesy said:
Bought my second 09 with 6.9 hours on it. It had sat for a very long time with no tender on it, started only once every six months with original fuel in from set up, and when I went to buy it, it had set for 6 months and they guy hit the button and it rolled over about 8 times and idled and ran flawlessly.
I just started both of mine the other day for the first time since September, I know violated my own rules, my older bike was a little fussy starting up, not bad but eventually started and ran fine, the newer bike with 30 some hours on it started up quicker and ran fine too.
I let them both idle until the cooling fans came on and gave them a few blips of the throttle to blow things out a bit, then let them run til the clutch side cover was hot. Shut them off and hooked tenders back up and plugged the exhaust.
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