counter-balancer bearing

husabutt · Jan 18, 2008

Mogly406 said:
johnpan said:

this fits the 2002 FE400 too? Can anyone give me a link to order it?

Click to expand...

Be careful!!! 2002 was the transistion year where the gear teeth pitch was changed. '01 and early '02 can't use the newest c'balancer without changing a bunch of other stuff. I have an early '02 that has the older pitch. If your lucky, your 2002 will be the later version.

On the 01's and early 02's a special part# was used to update the counterbalancer. I wrote this for the "doc" some time ago but should still apply I believe:

Husaberg 470/501 Models

Counterbalancer Update for 2001 and early 2002 models
The single bearing counterbalancer was replaced with a double bearing counterbalancer in late 2002. Counterbalancer failures were experienced on some 650's and on a lesser amount of smaller displacement engines. A counterbalancer assembly is available to upgrade to the double bearing version. Included are: Counterbalancer, bearings, circlip and shim. The 2003 counterbalancer cannot be used, as teeth on the counterbalancer sprocket have a different mesh.

470/501/550/650-2001 use update part # 201 257-01
470/501/550/650-2002 use update part # 210 243-01

http://www.husaberg.org/wiki/index.php/Engine_rebuild

I don't know if the 400 had an update part # as the small engine does not put as much strain on the counterbalancer as say a 650. A look into the latest parts book should tell.

Taffy · Jan 18, 2008

husabutt said:
I don't know if the 400 had an update part # as the small engine does not put as much strain on the counterbalancer as say a 650. A look into the latest parts book should tell.

i thought stress was a measure of the revs and not the CC?

just my thoughts eric?

regards

Taffy

husabutt · Jan 18, 2008

Taffy said:
husabutt said:

I don't know if the 400 had an update part # as the small engine does not put as much strain on the counterbalancer as say a 650. A look into the latest parts book should tell.

Click to expand...

i thought stress was a measure of the revs and not the CC?

just my thoughts eric?

regards

Taffy

Yes but the larger the cc the motor the more torsional vibration at the crankshaft and anything attached to it like a counterbalancer.

Taffy · Jan 18, 2008

fair doos but you did get my point.

regards

Taffy

husabutt · Jan 18, 2008

Taffy said:
fair doos but you did get my point.

regards

Taffy

Absolutely. As the counterbalancer spins in the opposite direction the effect on the bearing is that it is spinning at twice the speed of the crankshaft.

I learned that from you way back when

So has the student surpassed the Master?

Not quite yet :lol:

BOSS · Jan 18, 2008

johnpan;

The gear wheel on the crankshaft has a # on it's backside.
If it is # 130 you have a 01 engine & then need balancer #210-255-01.
If it;s # 145 you have a 02 engine & then need balancer#210-253-01.

Boss

Taffy · Jan 18, 2008

bloody hell boss!

you are becoming a mine of information lately!

rock on!

i tend to let two or three quality bits of info 'accumalate' before catching up and sticking it in the doc. you have all three at present! keep it up mate! quality stuff!

now eric

if the crank does 1,000 revs one way, and the c/b does 1,000 in the opposite - they are both geared and going at the same speed. however at the bearing the effect of a shaft through a bearing doing 1,000 one way and the weight on the outside of that bearing doing 1,000 in the other is the effect of the bearing doing 2, 000rpm.

just to repeat though that all things being equal in balancer weight: the 400 is no different to a 650 etc etc.

regards

Taffy

johnpan · Jan 19, 2008

thanks BOSS, that's great info! A question though, is there any easier way to find out what engine do I have? Maybe from the engine's number?

Simon · Jan 19, 2008

Taffy said:
that all things being equal in balancer weight: the 400 is no different to a 650 etc etc.

The fact of the matter is that the balance weights were different, by a significant margin hence one reason why 400s saw less failures. And why the first ever proposed solution to failed c/b bearing was to fit the weight from the 400 instead of the 400. Nowadays the 650 and 550 and 450 have the same weights...

Force = Mass x Acceleration

One thing I've never done though is calculate whether the addition rpm capabilities of the 400 would make up for the difference in weight. I'm not quite that sad :wink:

And as you say, the counter balancer bearing "sees" twice engine rpm but doesn't experience twice the force.

Simon

husabutt · Jan 19, 2008

johnpan said:
thanks BOSS, that's great info! A question though, is there any easier way to find out what engine do I have? Maybe from the engine's number?

Here is another way but not easier. From the doc and workshop manual:

Transmission
The transmission was modified with a different tooth profile between 2001 and 2002. The easiest way to determine how the engine was built is to look at the counter balancers' drive shaft. The early shaft has a straight surface and the later one has a diameter change between the position for the timing sprocket and the drive gear (tapered).

The following gears are not interchangeable between 2001 and 2002/2003: Counter balancer, balance drive shaft, drive gears on balancer drive shaft and crank shaft and also the outer clutch basket.

I think Bosses way is the surefire way to determine which tooth profile was used.

BOSS · Jan 19, 2008

Simon you are right in the fact there were different weights for different size engines,

Coupled with the bearing that was a plastic caged over stressed item.

However the balancer once again does not see twice the engine rpm!!

Crankshaft speed & balancer speed are =!

backmouse · Jan 27, 2008

I have also got the new 1 bearing balancer. Tried to order 2 separate bearings for my -03 550.
But they said it was only sold as a complete unit.
Old bearings couldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t be ordered. If I understand it right. The new bearing couldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t be ordered either. Only complete balancer was available.
So instead of 400 SEK, it became 1500 SEK...

Hopefully it's better then old type. But my double bearings had no damage.

chilledspode · Jan 27, 2008

BOSS said:
Simon you are right in the fact there were different weights for different size engines,

Coupled with the bearing that was a plastic caged over stressed item.

However the balancer once again does not see twice the engine rpm!!

Crankshaft speed & balancer speed are =!

True, but I think I heard Taffy saying the balancer bearing 'sees' twice the crank speed because the balancer rotates counter to the crank.

Cheers

Mark

Taffy · Jan 27, 2008

yes

the inner ring is going 10,000 one way and the outter is doing 10,000 the other.

regards

Taffy

Simon · Jan 29, 2008

BOSS said:
However the balancer once again does not see twice the engine rpm!!

Crankshaft speed & balancer speed are =!

Absolutely Boss, we agree with you completely :wink:

At 8k rpm engine speed the crank turns at 8krpm and the balancer spins in the opposite direction at 8k rpm.

Hence why we're saying it doesn't experience twice the force. We're not saying the balancer sees twice engine speed.

However, given that one part of the system is spinning one way and the other the other way and it's a bearing that sits in between, it is as Taffy and I agree totally with each other for once, "seeing" twice engine speed. :wink:

Given the dynamics, the bearing can't do anything but see twice engine speed, but it doesn't experience twice the acceleration force because the balancer is only traveling at engine speed :wink:

All the best,
Simon

HeimirBardason · Jan 29, 2008

Pheww,

Just barely got that Simon.
I had to think deeply this time and visualize the spinning of the whole matter!!!!

Really hope you are doing well in your health, friend.

Best ,
Heimir Bardason

Simon · Jan 31, 2008

HeimirBardason said:
Pheww,

Just barely got that Simon.
I had to think deeply this time and visualize the spinning of the whole matter!!!!

Really hope you are doing well in your health, friend.

Best ,
Heimir Bardason

Hey there Heimir, really nice to hear from you!

I'm doing OK at present, thank you, but that is all about to change come May as I'm due to become a dad

Hope you're well and all our best to your family.

All the best,
Simon

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