570 no start roll-over sensor?

After driving to Washington to enter a 100 mile desert race my bike got scared and decided not to start. They had a poker run on Saturday that I went on. Half way thru I stopped to check a downed rider. After that she wouldn't start and killed the battery. I just installed an 8 cell lithium battery that morning(330CCA). It has been getting hard to start. Always taking a second try. The 8 cell would show 15 volts while cranking. I ended up pushing it 4/10 of a mile to a downhill. Bumped on the second try, third gear. Ran great the rest of the ride(10+ miles). Never started again. Seems like it is turning over slower than it should. I charged the battery, removed the kill switch, checked the plug for spark and it had some fuel on it. I got home yesterday and decided to check the valves. IntR and L are .127mm, ExhR is .127mm and L is .152mm. Seems good to me. I'm thinking the roll over sensor. I flushed out the tank before I even rode the bike and have had it off/apart several times since then so I doubt fuel filter. Bike has 8.2 hours.
Anyone know how the roll over sensor works? Can I just disconnect it or do I have to make a jumper? Does it shut off the fuel pump and ignition when tripped or just fuel? Next thing I think I will have to check fuel pressure.
Other thing is maybe the decompression but it moves very easy to the touch.

Any ideas?

Thanks

do you have a FI code
check all the bikes grounds and connectors
keep us informed

No FI code. I did run a tap through the main battery ground on the frame awhile back. Going to put her back together and see if the injector squirts through the throttle body consistantly.

Did it run okay before you put that lithium battery in?

If it did, put the original battery back in and give a try.

Does the fuel pump cycle when you bump the starter button? The FI light should come on when you do this, and the pump should run for a couple of seconds.

At the last ISDE they had a 570 or 2 that were having problems starting hot. Engine did not want to spin freely when hot. Something with the head to camshaft tolerence I think. It only seemed to happen hot. I think Fryguy maybe familiar with the issue.
I found the post. See if this sounds familiar.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11393

Did not start well before lithium battery. It acted like a dead cell in the stock battery. I found loose terminals on the battery which helped at that time. Been chasing a hard start issue for awhile. Always took a second hit of the starter as the first hit wouldn't turn the engine over much. That's when I started checking the battery leads and the frame ground. I've got another battery to try when I get it back together. Fuel pump cycles on first hit of the starter. I feel like I am chasing multiple problems.
Bike charges 14.4 to 14.5 volts when it ran.

Tahoe,

From the thread that Berger linked.........Good job Ken!

Quick Note - if your having a possible electrical problem that you can't work out and you have the ability to swap your battery with a mates one - do it!!!! just to eliminate it as the cause, regardless if the battery appears fine.

Dealer has tested my bike side by side with my mates bike, both FE570-09 delivered the same day.
Although my battery was showing correct voltage, it was doing weird? things when running.
Swapped the batteries on the bikes and my mates bike did the weird things.
All appears in order so I'm riding this weekend and will see how she goes.

The thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11393&start=15

And FWIW,

Just read the thread. Thanks. That sounds like my bike for sure. The Lithium battery was charging 15 volts while running the starter but had a hard time turning it over when hot. It came out of my friends Aprilia 550. If it can fire that v-twin it should do a 570. So that's problem 1. But now it won't start cold and turns over.

What is the fix for the cam clearance issue? Don't really care to take it to a dealer and argue warranty crap.

If you only have 8 hours on the bike, I'm hoping that you are still in your warranty period. Put the original battery back in and take it back to the dealer and let them deal with it. I know that may not be the answer you want to hear, but it's the easiest on your pocket book. Especially in light of the fact the bike is not starting.

The cam deal........ As stated in the post it was a limited number of bikes, and they were all rentals at that ISDE. So I kind of doubt that would be your problem.

However, another guy had a problem with the auto decompressor weight spring being broken and that was the cause of his woes.

But then again who knows.

I just now saw that my one post did not come up properly. So,

FWIW,

Did you keep the original batter on a battery tender while it was just sitting?

Put the original type battery, YTZ7S back in and give it a go.

Have you checked all the connectors on the bike?

The cam deal is a stretch and I doubt it but when it was new it started cold real easy. Never started hot easy. If I new what they did I wouldn't mind fixing it. Clearances in the cam tower is what I would suspect. I doubt a roller bearing or cam would be off. I wouldn't mind line boring the cam tower if I knew how much needs to go. Other option is to replace the cam. I do want a different cam for more top end. Do any of the KTM cams drop in? Wish I had another bike to measure.

I have checked all the connectors that I have touched. The rest are zip tied real well. Time to check them anyways.

Bought the bike in late Feb. Couldn't ride it until the snow melted. Warranty would have to prove manufacture deffect and that would take longer than just fixing it myself.

The stock battery terminals kept coming loose. Within the same ride. I found a crack in the negative tower on the battery. That's when I got the line on the lithium. In Washington I of course pushed the tightening just a bit too much and split the tower. That same stock battery reads 12.9 volts right now. Just another reason to rule out battery issues. I did not hook up my battery tender to the bike yet.

The decompressor spring is fine and the weight moves very easy.

The one thing I haven't checked is idle speed. I saw in the manuel that too low of idle speed will cause a no start issue. I did turn it down at Washington. If this is the cold no start issue I will :hang: since I'm getting so much crap from my buddies for not racing.

i installed a lithium battery on my 09 450 last month for a rally. in the rally i got problems with the bike stalling in the dunes. never saw a connection... maybe there is. anyway i just disconnected the sensor, that helps. no consequenses for the bike besides the error blinking orange light. 1x slow 5x quick

Thanks JW. I disconnected the roll over sensor and it started. I then backed the idle all the way out until it died. Tried to start it then and it would start if you cracked the throttle. When it wouldn't start in Washington I did try and crack the throttle to start it but nothing. I can rule out idle speed. Next I plugged in the sensor and it started. Now I can't really say that I fixed it. I will go ride this week-end and check the hot start issue. Better park on a hill just in case.

I don't have a wire schematic for this thing. It looks like the roll over sensor has a 12 volt +, 12 volt -, and feed wire to the ECU. I'm thinking of "reading" the feed wire then make a jumper to fake out the ECU so I can unplug it and not get a FI light.

I don't think my issues are over yet.
Thanks for the help everyone.

tahoeacr said:

Thanks JW. I disconnected the roll over sensor and it started. I then backed the idle all the way out until it died. Tried to start it then and it would start if you cracked the throttle. When it wouldn't start in Washington I did try and crack the throttle to start it but nothing. I can rule out idle speed. Next I plugged in the sensor and it started. Now I can't really say that I fixed it. I will go ride this week-end and check the hot start issue. Better park on a hill just in case.

I don't have a wire schematic for this thing. It looks like the roll over sensor has a 12 volt +, 12 volt -, and feed wire to the ECU. I'm thinking of "reading" the feed wire then make a jumper to fake out the ECU so I can unplug it and not get a FI light.

I don't think my issues are over yet.
Thanks for the help everyone.

Click to expand...

PM me your email address

Dale

Where exactly IS the rollover sensor? I just want to know in case I ever experience a problem on the trail...

blumpkin said:

Where exactly IS the rollover sensor? I just want to know in case I ever experience a problem on the trail...

Click to expand...

right under your battery about the size of 2 cigaretlighters

It's back. Damn thing wouldn't start. Had the tank off. I put it back on and nothing. Turns over but no start. I look in the throttle body and it's not wet. Bone dry. Fuel pump is charging. Then It doesn't even want to turn over. I had my trickle charger on it. I put on a real battery charger set at 2 amp. Won't turn over but shows 13+ volts at the battery. I pull the starter fuse and get that relay out in the open. Check the starter cable from the relay to the starter. .3 to .4 ohms. When I hit the starter, the voltage coming off the starter cable at the relay is in the 9's. This sounds low. I then disconnect the fuel pump and connect it back. The frigin bikes starts right up. I don't get it. I was hearing the fuel pump before and would let it charge up before I hit the starter a second time to try and start. Since the bike was running yesterday I hooked the roll over sensor back up. It ran after that. I going to charge the battery for awhile then try to unhook the rollover sensor without moving the tank around.

I'm reading this thread, and I'm confused if the motor always cranks over, but wont start; or if sometimes it doesn't crank over at all?? You mentioned that sometimes it seems slow to crank over, and to that I will say that mine "seems" to crank over slower than other bikes I've had, but I don't think it's necessarily dysfunctional.

It's obvious that the battery post coming loose on the original battery was at least part of the issue, but you can now rule that out since you have another battery installed.

What is the voltage on the battery when you crank the motor? In my experience, it should be somewhere around 10.5 volts. If it is charged and still drops below 10 volts, I would say your battery is probably no good.

You can search for bad connections by checking voltage drop: place one lead of your voltmeter on the negative battery terminal, and the other on the positive lead of whatever connection you are testing (i.e, the starter, the starter relay, etc) and check the voltage while cranking the motor. It should only display ~.1 volts less for each component compared to when you place the positive lead directly on the battery terminal (see above paragraph). Here are a couple links that explain this:
http://www.labscopes.com/pg08.htm
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Have_91_Toyot ... _cap_rotor

If that all seems fine, then I would think that the problem might be fuel related. I've been going through a lot of this crap on my '09 FE570 (see my "Hard Starting" thread in this forum). I'm to the point where my dealer and I feel that it's either a problem with the fuel delivery (due to bad/dirty injector and/or fuel filter) or with the auto decompression system. I'm leaning toward the fuel delivery, based on the specific conditions that are present when I have trouble starting the bike. If my bike sits unused for 2 days, it will start easily. It will also start easily if started within say 5-30 seconds of shutting the bike off. Also, if I crank the motor for 5-7 seconds, let off the button, and then push it again, it will start up easily the 2nd attempt. Otherwise, it takes around 7 cranks/seconds for it to start up. From what DaleEO stated in my thread, it appears that he has the exact same problem as me.

Did you try spraying starter fluid into the intake while cranking the motor? It didn't help mine at all (possibly made it worse), further leading me to believe that the bike is flooded when trying to start it, due to a leaking injector, bad fuel pressure regulator, or something of that nature.

Ahh, OhioPT you are not confused. Sometimes it cranks and doesn't start. Sometimes it won't crank at all. This is what is making it so hard to diagnose. I can't find any consistency in it. Right after I posted my last post I went back to the garage and hit the button and she fired right up. Over the next couple hours I would hit the button and it fired right up. At this point I'm thinking with the fact that I saw a 4 volt drop across the relay the starter relay must be toast. It still didn't explain why sometimes it will crank but not start(at these times the throttle body is dry). I started thinking that the relay is just killing my battery. Once the battery voltage dropped to around 12.6 the relay issue came back. Still doesn't explain why with the 2 amp charger on it wouldn't start. Then you posted and I read the first link. It says in there it is possible for a bad relay to take all the battery power and not leave enough to fire the injector even though the starter is turning over. Hmm. I will order a relay tomorrow. Not sure if this will solve all, but it is one problem that needs to go away.
So here is my theory so far. The loose battery terminals caused the relay to go South. The negative battery post splitting didn't help. When I put the 8-cell lithium battery in, I had a different problem. The stock kill switch had got water in it. We cleaned it and un-plugged it to make sure. It then started. All the cranking from that and the first half of the ride killed that battery. I put it on a charger when I got back but only got it to the mid 12's. Not enough to overcompensate for the relay. The no start issues while turning over I think are when there just isn't enough reserve for the injector.
Now to find a Husaberg relay.

After reading your last post I had a thought...........

Have you checked the running voltage of the bike after all of this to make sure the rectifier is charging the battery? I usually get around 14.7 VDC on the battery while the bike is running.

Did you check all the multi pin connectors for cleanliness and proper seating? Like the fuel injector connector?

This problem you are having hints at an intermittent connection problem-the absolute worst kind of electrical problem.

When my bike was new I pulled every single connector apart and put a dab of di electric grease in each one to make sure that no water could get in there and corrode the connections.

There is also a relay on the front down tube of the bike that picks up and transfers battery power to the fuse box, so there is another connector there as well.

A while back a guy was having problems with his bike and found that the wiring harness plug into the ecu was loose. Check every connector on your bike to eliminate this possibility.