13.5 Volts vs 12.6

Here is an interesting article I found. I am reading up on yfz 450 quads as my wife just got one. Here is a sample of the article:



1) The battery itself: The battery is a Dry-cell, sealed battery. Unlike regular batteries, its internal voltage is about 13.5V (as compared to about 12.6V for standard batteries.)

Due to the higher voltage, you need to use a special charger for it. Regular battery chargers will only charge it to about 12.5V max. This is only about 70% of this battery's capacity.

Several companies make the higher voltage chargers, but the recommended one is made by Yamaha. It's called the Opti-mate 3, and is available from any Yamaha parts dealer for about $60.


A) It is important that the battery is fully charged to its maximum 13.5V prior to being installed in the YFZ for the first time. If it was not fully charged before installation, that battery may not accept a full charge (ever) due to the battery 'memory'.

Full article

Link to Opti-mate 3 charger

This may have been why when I tried a new YTZ7S it didn't solve the problem and died rather quickly. I am going to chuck my battery tender and try one of these chargers. Has anyone tried a Opti-mate or equivalent?

husabutt

i've had exactly the same problem! it's as though i haven't had the battery on charge!

let us know how you get on.

Taffy

husabutt said:

Has anyone tried a Opti-mate or equivalent?

Click to expand...

The Optimate consistently gets tops results in tests and is generally considered one of the few battery tenders/charges that does its job properly (for motorcycle batteries that is).

HTH
Simon

where can i get one in the uk simon please?

Taffy

Both Hein Gericke and M & P sell them. Around the 40 quid mark

www.hein-gericke.co.uk
www.MandP.com

The UK importer of Yuasa batteries also sells a charger/maintenance unit that they obviously say re-charges the 'berg batteries properly. Can't remember the brand but I know Gary Grover uses one and usually holds one or two in stock - tel: 01488 670400

HTH
Simon

Taffy

There are also a few on ebay at the mo. Make sure you buy the latest version which is the Optimate III.

Rgds

Sounds a bit like a sales pitch for Yamparts. :badair:

All battery chargers intended for normal lead-acid batteries need to go to at least 13.8 volts otherwise the battery won't charge. Cheaper chargers generally have no voltage regulation and will go considerably higher than this to the point where they will bugger the battery if left connected once the battery is fully charged. They rely on a person turning the charger off at about the right time to prevent over-charging. The voltage of a normal lead-acid will normally drop to about 12V in a few minutes after disconnecting the charger.

With a YTZ type battery the voltage will fall to a level higher than this. They use the battery voltage to indicate the state of charge. 12.6V indicates flat, 13.6 or so at full charge.

There are several three step chargers available, one of which is the Opti-mate 3. Batterytender is another. I've got a Mascot brand.

A three step charger will (1) put a constant current that is safe for the battery to handle (2.7A for the Mascot) through the battery until the terminal voltage rises to about 14.4V while charging. The battery is about 80% charged after this. It then (2) holds the battery at constant 14.4V for a set period of time (~1 hour for the Mascot). During this time the current will reduce as the battery charges. The batt is now 100% charged. It then (3) reduces its output voltage to a safe 13.5V standby that the battery can tolerate indefinitely so that the charger can be left connected & on.

A two step charger only does steps (1) & (3) above. It takes much longer to bring the battery completely to 100% and may never actually do so.

**** Smith in Oz sells a charger labeled "3 step" but is only a two step. They go on with crap about voltage measurement being the third "step".

These chargers are specified for use with certain size batteries. This is only to keep the maximum charging current below that which will cause damage to the size battery being charged. Charging a battery with a one intended for a smaller battery will not cause damage.

Brad:
Thanks for the great info. I had no prior knowledge of a three step charger. I guess thats why they call it the Opti-Mate 3.

While poking around looking at chargers I came across this one:Batterymate 150-9. It is probably a little pricey but nonetheless seems to have all the bells and whistles. The video is very informative. I already ordered the Optimate charger today but if anyone gets this one please let us know if it lives up to its claims.

and i thought (again!) i had the business. i have a gunderson that trickles in about 1 amp/hour. i've had it 15 years. this is from the days when the only other chargers were car ones doing about 6amp/hour and you could all gather around the bench and watch the plates buckle. it beat the tv at the time!

Taffy

batteries

Here is an article from SideTrack magazine in Aust. NO I cant work it out how to add this article that I just spent the last 10 mins scanning?????Well the article is by a very clever bloke from Betta Bikes somewhere in South Oz, he says that the NEW m/free batts (ytz etc) need to charged very slowly at aprox 2-3 amps over several hours??? Not flat out 10-15 amps rapidly! He also says that the new m/free batts will not recover if let go flat by simply charged by the bike?
If someone can tell me how to add the pic I scanned you can all have a look?

batteries

Sorry I forgot to mention, with all my battery & electrical probs etc etc , when I charge either battery I ALWAYS hook up my multi metre to monitor the voltage while charging! This usually means it starts off with low voltage 12.8v and as it charges the voltage increases up to aprox 16-17 volts(after aprox 2 hours) and then tapers off, and this is when I stop.

I just now ran across this thread on battery charging. I recently replaced the original YTX4 MF sealed battery in my '04 KTM 525 EXC with a YTZ7S factory activated MF battery and am curious about the statement indicating that the YTZ7S battery is 13.6 V at full charge!! A reply that I received from Alan Kohler of Yuasa stated that the YTZ7S has the same charge voltage as their other MF batteries such as the YTX4 or YTX5. For battery charging, he of course recommended their own chargers but said that my 3 step Battery Tender Plus would be perfectly satisfactory. Is there something that I am not aware of that distinguishes the YTZ7S from any other MF battery??

The YTZ7S is just a good MF battery that fits the Berg. It was a Cannondale cross reference but they now come standard on the 04-05 Bergs. All the MF batteries need a 3 step charger to be properly charged to 13.5 volts. I don't know if the battery tender is a true 3 step but the Optimate is. I have both chargers. This weekend I will charge the YTZ7S with the Battery Tender, measure the volts, then slap on the Optimate and see if it "tops" the Battery Tender and then will remeasure the voltage. A brand new YTZ7S charged with the Optimate read 13.4 volts. I'll post the findings.

I am resurrecting an old post here but I think I may have found the explanation about why the YTZ7S in my bike (formerly Bobzilla's) is not working properly although he maintains it was new for the Moab ride.

When I took it home, it had a bit of juice and actually after priming the bike it would start cold on the e-start. Shaggy (aka 2 lungs) and Kenny my son will testify this is true.

Next the battery did not want to know anything. I had the bike on a battery tender I bought just for the berg, as Bob kept telling me that's how he was juicing it. Surprisingly, the led would turn from red to yellow in a couple minutes although I knew the battery was "dead" (low voltage). I took the bike to Berger's so he could check it out and also teach me how to cold start (duuuuuh). In the meantime I ordered ($100 w/shipping) a brand new YTZ7S.

Berger had the battery on the Optimate. Warm, the bike would e-restart with a single push. Awesome. I take the bike home, kick start it (read the "pop the cold start cherry" thread), fine. But no restart at all.

Now the battery will not charge at all while riding it (Read the "I even rode the bike" thread) and it (almost) spoiled my first riding experience with this bike.

To the point: did Bob do wrong to not follow the three-step procedure and is the battery "screwed" because of that? Can it still be "saved"? Obviously I need an Optimate, but the battery seems to have something wrong with it...

LeFrog said:

Now the battery will not charge at all while riding it ......

To the point: did Bob do wrong to not follow the three-step procedure and is the battery "screwed" because of that? Can it still be "saved"? Obviously I need an Optimate, but the battery seems to have something wrong with it...

Click to expand...

Sounds like you may have a problem with the charging system on the bike but not necessarily the battery.

Charge the battery & measure its terminal voltage without the charger connected. Full charge should be about 13.6V as said by others. Put it in the bike. Try to crank the bike with the voltmeter conneted across the battery. If it don't crank but the voltage falls much below about 8V chances are the battery is screwed. If the voltage doesn't change much the start system is not working correctly.

Start the bike with the voltmeter still connected across the battery. The voltage should go higher than 13.6V. If it doesn't the bike is not charging & the battery will go flat if used in the bike for long.

I very much doubt Bob killed the battery, unless he charged the living crap out of it with a garden variety, unregulated large charger. If he is using an Optimate, apart from never using it and leaving the battery dead flat for a l-o-n-g time, I can't think of anything you could do with it that would hurt either the battery or the bike. (Might hurt you but if you hook it onto your tongue or genitals! 8O )

Even with a smallish standard car charger you would have to leave it connected & on for a few days to do any noticeable damage to the battery. There are many here who only use these with quite OK results. The only real advantage of the 2 or 3 step chargers is you can leave them connected for a long time without hurting the battery. I've got two different 3 steps & think they are great.

LeFrog said:

In the meantime I ordered ($100 w/shipping) a brand new YTZ7S.

Click to expand...

The YTZ7S battery is available through batterystuff.com for $79 including shipping charges.

Thanks. Well, it's too late. They don't seem to have the Optimate. Only seem to carry the Battery Tenders.

Frogy:

You can order an Optimate III at a Yamaha dealer easily as they have a Yamaha part #.

Optimate III

Yuasa recently came out with a 5 stage charger. This is beginning to get ridiculous!
Yuasa 5-stage

BMG should offer these and put a BMG/Husaberg part #'s on them.

I would venture a guess and say that you are probably not at much of a disadvantage with a Battery Tender. The measureable results are probably negligible.

Actually the battery is fully charged up. 12.8v between the + and the starter bracket...

I think I may have to check all the connections.

Anybody needs a new battery?

12.8V indicates it is not fully charged up. 13.6V when at rest is fully charged.