FS 570 intermittent issue

Hey ladies and gents

Hoping that someone can help me out with an issue on my bike

First up, apologies for the rough (and epically long) post; I'm writing this from a transit lounge on my phone, waiting for a plane...

I've spent plenty of time reading other posts on the forum but haven't found a set of symptoms quite the same as what I'm experiencing, but guessing someone that has dealt with this before...

Details on the bike; I have a 2011 FS 570. I bought it at about 40hours. It has now done 120 or so hours, (12000km). When I bought it it was ex USA (I'm in NZ they never sold these bikes here so rare as hens teeth). The bike was de-smogged, and the ECU set to "open" setting, also t he fuel pump was replaced under warranty all by the dealer in the USA... Since then, while I've had it, I've installed the ignition map switch, (set to position 2) installed a FMF 4.1 slip on with spark arrestor installed, and DNA air filter. All stock except for that. Best bike ever... Love it and ride it everyday.

I do oil every 600 or so kms. Everything was perfect on the bike until I took it the local dealer for 10000km service. I thought I was doing the "right thing" to get the local dealers do the 100 hour service and check the valves, ecu etc...

$600 later and the bike doesn't feel as good and has some "issues"...

It seems to run hotter (header pipe seems to really get burning hot fast!), leaner, harder to start, and twice I've flattened the battery trying to start it (more on that shortly as that's the main issue).

I've tried asking the dealer to help but they really are a complete waste of time. Talking to them sends me into a white hot rage, so I'd rather sort this this out on the forum if possible.

So. Apologies for the long intro; my key problem is;

1. Go for a decent ride ride - I.e. 100kms non stop, pretty fast and furious.. The bike is mint and performs beautifully.
2. Stop for a beer and get gas... 30mins or so...
3. Go to start bike. Bike turns over and attempts to start and fires but won't run. When it does run it dies immediately - without throttle... Sounds like it's not getting gas. Both times this has happened I've had to jump the bike and then rev the **** out of it to keep it running. Then basically ride home non stop in low gear to keep the revs high. All the time dreading the issues this is causing the bike...
4. Once home the bike is either the same... Or... Last time, it started and idled perfectly, like nothing was wrong... Grrr...

After the first time this happened, I;

1. Checked the inline fuel filter - no debris
2. Checked the fuses. All good.
3. Checked the valves. Dealer reshimmed and They are now 10 exhaust and 11 inlet - which is on the very tight end of OK I think...
4. Replaced the plug. Which was pretty white, (lean) but not scared or burnt, just pretty lean...
5. Replaced coolant and bleed the system...
6. Fixed the battery terminals as the dealer hadn't tightened the connections, just had them sitting loose... Zzz... Wouldn't be helping with the bad starts!

Rode the bike to work for another two weeks (a cruisy 8km each way) with zero issues...

Then I Rode the bike on the weekend with my mates and the same issue happened again!

My main concerns are;
1. My new FMF slip on and DNA filter are making the fuelling too lean? (I miss my FS650 and carbie at times like this) this only happened since I fitted the FMF and had the valves adjusted by the dealer... Not sure what they did to the ECU they won't say...
2. Fuel pump is still broken / replaced with an old model?
3. Not solely blaming the dealer, but wish they could be more transparent and helpful instead of obstinate arse-masters. The issues all listed are only after the service and the fitting of the FMF.

Not too sure what else I need to check? I want to confirm the ecu settings, but need to ride to another city to find a better ktm dealer to do this... Do I need to worry about the lambda sensor and de-smogging stuff being an issue? Should the FMF slip on be an issue? I wouldn't have thought so... Not like a huge change or like I changed the header pipe... The dealer said bike would auto adjust to the new pipe, but I think that's ********, but prettysure the bike doesnt have any closed loop ecu adjustments... Are the valves too tight... I would have liked to have seen more like 12 and 14 from what people say on the forum?

Ok. Time to go. I hope that's enough info?

Would be really appreciative for any insights and advice. Thanks in advance for any info...

thanks everyone. Off to Japan now but will keep an eye on this thread everytime I find some free wifi!

Cheers. rvj

2011 / FS570 / DNA / FMF 4.1

If the dealer made changes to your ecu and wont cough the details then Id say thats the culprit.

The ecu can be set to use hego feedback. I bored my 570 to 610 and got away without much drama.

The symptoms you describe also sound like tight valves, plenty of Honda owners know that feeling ha ha. If they really did avrage job it might pay to check valves yourself.

Do you have a big temperature/elevation changes where you ride?

check the fuel pressure with a gauge,thats a good starting point imo. also take the air filter out and spray a little carb cleaner into the intake manifold if it starts you know it is a lack of fuel problem.

Strange timing on the symptom... Maybe they managed to get dirt into the fuel hose quick connection? Could explain the lean mix. Remove the injector, open it up with a 9V battery and blow compressed air through it. Do it from the nozzle side, against the normal flow path, so you blow away any debris potentially stuck inside.

But why wont they say what they did to the ECU...? Bloody strange. If they put in the standard map it will be too lean, especially with the dna and fmf. I would find another dealer and have them install the competition map, just to be sure.

Thanks gents. All good leads to try. I don't have any special tools to check fuel pressure etc, but will keep you posted as I try things out... I think it seems sensible that if the valve clearances are too tight then once it gets really hot (after a long ride) then it could be how the issue manifests... The ecu really needs a check too so will start there first... Then valves.. I don't ride in the dirt so a small chance of debris in the fuel system, although it could also be injectors, but strange its intermittent - I would have thought bad injectors would be consistent... I'm back home in a week so will hunt down a new service agent then. Cheers!

Yes you are right, injector should be consistent...

The exhaust valves are out of specs. Should be 12-17.

The bike will not auto adjust, that dealer/workshop seems to not be the best...

Ha ha... Yip. "Not the best" would be an understatement! They are the biggest dealership in my city (Auckland) but sadly don't seem to be doing justice to the brands they support. Anyway - as always, this forum is awesome and I appreciate all advice I get here: it's the difference of people that care vs people that are just "doing business" thanks again

to prevent this from happening in the future (dirt in injection systm/fuel/fuel pump??? )
us a tanksock my bike has started great all the time lately it refused to start the last couple of weeks sometimes I had to pull the seat of and it started or wiggle the cables around the fuse box to get it started...
Now I found what the problem wast the bolt that connects the starting relais to the battery cam loose because of vibrations tightened it back up an now starts up instantly when I press starter button

I also had problems with dirt in the injector/fuel lines/pump a while back at about 150 hours after the tanksock no issues
Just to be sure I ordered a new filter kit for the fuel pump for when the rebuild is done better safe than sorry

After reading your post in detail,I suggest looking at your fuel pump,I had the same symptoms with mine.

Ok cheers. I'll check out the pump too while the tank is off... It has been replaced, under warranty, but I do have suspicions that it might be faulty... Apparently there is an aftermarket one that is better than the KTM one? Which pump did you end going for? Thanks!

mine failed the first month after i bought bike,the dealer replaced it with the revised pump assembly under warranty.evidently they identified a batch a bad pumps from a outside vendor,you would have to do a search for i believe the bad oems were brown? not positive though.
this is the only problem i ever had with bike.

Silly question, but did you check to see if your "choke" knob is pushed in all the way?

Ha ha. Not a silly question! The choke seems to be fine... I did adjust the idle as the dealer set it very low after the service and it was too hard to start. But all good now this is my first EFI bike so the throttle body etc is all a bit of mystery so hoping nothing else of concern (like a faulty or disconnected cable) like the lambda sensor or something... I'm still in Japan but home next weekend. I'll take a look at the fuel pump myself (because it a job I can do) then track down a dealer to help with the ECU... After that, adjust valve clearances. 12 (in)and 15(ex) sounds correct? Can't think of anything else... Hopefully the fuel pump isn't the issue - I understand they are pretty expensive...

Hi Gents. So, in the weekend I installed a new fuel pump (the "Ca Cycleworks Fuel Pump KTM/Husaberg 09-12" one...)

I've included a pic of the old one and the new one. Not sure if the old one was the problem (nothing written on it to identify it), but I'll find out soon I hope...

I also took a couple of shots of the fuel filter. I'm not sure if this a "good one" or "problem one"?

Appreciate any info if you guys have done this before.

Still trying to track down someone to help out with the ECU, will see if the pump changes anything before I make another change.

Cheers!

That fuel filter is not usually a worry but does need replacing periodically, the filter on the pick up end of the pump can be troublesome. There is a filter that goes into the top of the injector that can clog up.

Watch out for the hoses, they can kink and twist when getting the pump holder back in.

Hi Gents. So - the plot thickens...

I got to go for a decent ride today (taking it pretty easy as I was wearing in my new tyres) and the bike exhibited the same fault again.

This time, to get the bike running, while it was still hot, at the side of the road I unclipped the fuel line (from the tank to the injectors) where the small inline white fuel filter sits. After undoing that and then reconnecting (whilst cooking my fingers like Xmas yams) I then undid the fuel cap on the tank, and the bike started. I did need a bit of a revs to get it idling without stalling, but I managed to get riding again in 5 minutes of not being able to keep the engine running at all.

This all seems to point to the Vapour (Vapor) lock issue that is in several threads here on forum.

I've read through these threads and found mixed results;

http://husaberg.org/husaberg/14035-vapor-lock-final-solution.html (didn't actually see a solution in here sadly )
http://husaberg.org/fuel/14138-fuel-pump-problem-something-else-2.html
http://husaberg.org/fuel/12972-engine-backfires-quits.html
http://husaberg.org/fuel/13915-aftermarket-fuel-pump.html
http://husaberg.org/fuel/17008-help-out-ideas-bike-possessed.html
http://husaberg.org/husaberg/15879-just-purchased-new-2011-fe570.html
http://husaberg.org/fuel/15394-2011-fe570-stalled-wouldn-t-restart-hot.html
http://husaberg.org/fuel/15782-yet-another-what-s-wrong-my-berg-thread.html

Solutions that seemed to have worked for others are;

new CA pump (i did this)
new 10 micron pump intake filter
new 10 micron in line filters (or remove altogether?)
not using fuel with any ethanol / gunk in fuel filters and tank
heat wrap and CV4 insulation on mid pipe and tank
wiring issues
faulty / dirty injectors
the breather on the tank fuel cap (this seems really sensible!)

The bit that still confuses me though, is that prior to the service I had no issues at all. Now I do...I wonder if the dealer has installed new inline filters on my bike and perhaps they were not in there before?

Is it Ok if i remove these and test? Does anyone remove these altogether?

I will also look into the fuel tank cap to ensure that is breathing sufficiently...

Cheers!

I had problems with my 570-12 when it was new until my dealer called me and told me to remove that 10 micron inline filter and toss it away.

What happens is that the filter swells from the heat (close to the engine) and restricts itself. Some ethanol gunk in addition and the fuel is slowly cut back until the engine dies.

Later KTM came out with a new but gray filter. The difference is that it's 15 micron....

Imo remove it asap regardless if that is the problem or not. If you want a filter go for a 10 micron mini golan, or do it as it was pre -12 - no filter. Regardless if you have filter or not it's a good habit to remove the injector now and then, open it up with a 9V battery and blow compressed air through it against normal flow direction. I have a mini golan but can still notice a difference after cleaning the injector.

And yes, some recommend to remove the steel ball in the fuel cap. Can get stuck.

Good News!

I'm happy to say that the bike is now "fixed"! I went out for about 5 hours yesterday, no issues at all.

The "Fix" for my vapour lock issue was SOOO simple, it's almost too embarrassing to post! :spin:

There was a bung/plug attached to the bottom of the fuel breather pipe on my bike. Not sure why I hadn't put 2 and 2 together before, but after removing that plug, the tank could breath - and no more issues... too simple... not sure why the plug is there? I'm assuming in the USA (my bike is imported from the USA) where they have the carbon canisters installed that the pipe has additional routing/elements that must provide a breather - but on my bike the breather pipe just went straight down under the bike and was then blocked off! Odd...

A bit of a shame that I bought a new fuel pump when I didn't need to, there was no issue there, so I now have a spare, good, fuel pump if someone is after one?

So - thanks to everyone that helped me troubleshoot this! Appreciate all your input - I was pretty concerned when it started to happen, but now feel pretty stupid that I missed such a simple fix...

The sun is shining again today, so I'm off for another ride now.

Cheers!

Great news that you sorted this out! It usually is the simple stuff that has us scratching our heads! I read with interest that you say your bike came from the US to NZ as I was told that my bike came from NZ to AUS as our dealers ran out of them due to demand in 2010.

As the problem came after you had it to service maybe you should bring the plug back to them and ask why they installed it...?

Good that it's working, and that it was an easy fix!!! Not embarrassing at all as who would have thought that anyone would plug it!