550 FE - Oil Change - Seize - HELP!!!!

Hello All.

Im a newbee, this is my first post – unfortunately its not a good one, and fairly long.

I have an FE550, 27 hours, 800miles, ive had the bike 3 months and believe before I owned it is was regularly service and well looked after. It came with spare oil, oil filter etc.

I am a competent home mechanic with friends in the trade, and have always service cars and bikes, rebuilt engines, diesels head gaskets etc…. Anyway tonight was set aside to change the oil and filter on the berg.

Old oil drained out by leaning the bike over, filter removed, no nasty surprises although there was some filings on the magnetic filter. Everything cleaned, sump plug back in, half filled the filter housing with oil, fitted filter. Poured in 1L of 5W50 with the bike upright. Oil level glass full. Ignition off, turned the bike over 5 times or so to get some oil around.

The berg fired first time and ran on tickover for maybe 30 seconds then cut out. It then turned over twice but wouldn’t start. At this point the starter stopped being able to turn the bike over and just ‘clicked’. I feared for the worse so attempted a kick. Seized solid!!!! Tried to rock the bike in 2nd,3rd, 4th, 5th, all solid.

At this point I removed the spark plug, still not able to move anything.
I then removed the stator cover and stator, poured some oil down the plug hole and used a socket and large driver, with some force the engine would turn over. It managed 2 revolutions before becoming tight again. There was a scoring noise as oil got around but it seemed to improve. At this point I could turn 5 or 6 complete revolutions before it became very tight, with scoring noise, it would turn easily 5 or 6 anticlockwise before the same thing happened.

Figuring I didn’t have much to lose it cranked it over further by hand, this seemed to free it up – stopped all the scoring noise so I completed 70 revolutions by hand. The engine was now turning over freely. Stator back on. Plug still removed – and the bike would kick over – I turned it over on the kick start 20 times and everything moved freely. In with the plug, couple of kicks, then fired it on the button. It started second time around, ran for 30 seconds then seized again. Back to square one.

So…..does anyone have any idea what could have happened, the 5 to 6 revolutions is confusing me, why would it be tight/grind on the 5-6th, but free up until that point.

My first though was seized top end, but im now thinking maybe a main bearing???

I plan to investigate further tomorrow evening and with start the strip down. Any ideas, thoughts or suggestions anyone has would be gratefully received.

Thank you in advance
Rob.

Very strange Rob.
I'm wondering if you had something floating around in the clutch cover. Perhaps when you leaned the bike over it may have got loose and into the starter/primary gears.
If it were me I would pull the clutch covers off and have a look around. I think what happened is more coincidental to the oil change then actually being caused by it. I would think it would run longer than 30 seconds with no oil in it.

rmcoxx said:

filter removed,

Click to expand...

could you have possibly installed the filter backwards/wrong?

Too much oil maybe? how much did you put in ? should be level with bottom of sight glass cold.

Hi thanks for the replies.

The filter went back in as the old one came out. I've checked and double checked everything I did when things started to go wrong. And the pulled the filter out afterwards to makes sure oil was getting around. The filter was drenched in oil.

As per 'berger' I'm wondering if in leaning the bike over to drain the oil out, something metallic and swarf like got where it shouldn't have got. Causing something to jam?

The thing that's confusing me is the 5 free full rotations each way before becoming 'grindy' again. Could it be bearings moving in each way in a broken housing.

Either way further investigation is needed, if i pull the clutch out will I be able to see anything more useful?
I was planning on starting at the top end and working back until I find something broken. Would it be better to drop the engine out or can investigation work start with it still in the frame.

Also is there a workshop manual online/on the forum for the 550? I feel i will be spending lots of evenings reading it.

I was hoping my first major mechanical incident of 2012 wouldn't be in the 2nd week!!man

Thanks for the replies, the forum was a great help when choosing which bike to buy, and im sure it will be even more helpful with my latest man vs machine challenge.

Rob.

rmcoxx said:

Also is there a workshop manual online/on the forum for the 550? I feel i will be spending lots of evenings reading it.

Click to expand...

You can download the 05~07 repair manual from Husaberg's site.
Look at model year 2008..
http://www.husaberg.com/Downloads.33.8.html

If you pull the clutch covers off you will be able to see quite a bit. You should be able to rotate the motor with the covers off and hopefully see what is binding.

rmcoxx said:

It started second time around, ran for 30 seconds then seized again.

Click to expand...

just to make sure......
when it 'seizes' it isnt that its getting vapor lock from too much gas [like a float stuck open]?
it will be hard to turn with the sparkplug removed right? i think the answer is yes i'm just making sure.

im just wondering if its binding up and then the scaping noise you hear is 'normal' ?

did you have a look at the cam/rockers to amke sure thats all opening properly?

i feel your pain.

Hi again,

Its cant be hydraulically full, the spark plug has been out since it started to go wrong. The scraping is not normal - its a horrible metal on metal - snapped tooth/broken bearing noise. (I think)

So...........
Last night I dropped the oil, coolant. Removed water pump (which I broke getting off), off with the clutch side engine casing.

Everything that side looks free and easy. No cogs/bearings broken, nothing binding, no metal chips/shavings anywhere.

So I removed the rocker cover, all valves, springs fine, cam lobes smooth. The cam chains tension doesn’t really change when turning it over which leads me to believe the top end is fine.

The piston moves freely on the mid stroke. No scoring noises or sticking.

Cranking the engine over by hand, it moves freely for 2 revolutions (when it opens the valves it obviously gets tougher). It then gets very difficult to crack and feels to be binding or in fact chewing something up.

With force you can move it past this point, and then it will turn freely for maybe 2 – 2.5 turns before becoming tough again. This happens the same both ways. The 2-2.5 seems to changes each time i.e. its not always stiff at the same point.

I fear that a main bearing has broken up, or I’ve lost a tooth somewhere. This may be what is stopping rotating.
Whilst cranking you can feel that something is grinding or breaking bits up.

To investigate further the engine will need to be split the engine open. Mid West racing is only 30 mins away from me – my worry is it could end up being a horrendous repair bill for something I could do myself.

Has anybody had to replace the main bearings? Any ideas of approx cost?

Is the main bearing a weak spot on these bikes – 2008 engine – FE550.? The bike has only done 800miles. Has had regular oil changes, no racing, not even off road use.

I was having such fun with my bike, the off road wheels were going on this week too :O(
Thanks again for the tips/advice.

Rob.

Hi Coxy

I get the feeling if you check out the binding point it might be to do with one of two things breaking. check that a valve spring hasn't collapsed firstly. then the two favourites are the tappet nuts coming off (so count the 4!) and a tooth breaking off the freewheel. the freewhell sits at 1pm over the clutch basket. it is in the middle of the sprague.

wipe all the oil out the bottom and look for debris.

they can make that high pitched scrape noise.

I'm over near Newmarket. but if I can help let me know?

regards

Taffy

Hi Taffy.

Thanks for the advice. All 4 tappet nuts are secure and in place, all 4 springs are in place, whole and working correctly. The entire top end sems to work as it should.

I cleaned out all the oil from the clutch casing and there was no debris whatsoever. All teeth looked to be in place but ill have another look this evening specifiaclly at the free wheel.

If this is the case, (freewheel intact) what would be you next port of call?

Many thanks
Rob.
a.k.a Coxy.

well you've got to narrow down and isolate the tight spot so by pulling the clutch you can spin the crank seperately. you can spin the balancer inside at the same time you are spinning the cam. if the rocker cover is off then again that helps.

I forgot to mention that the nut and bolt in the cam sprocket often break off and leave a 4mm hole near one of the cam sprocket bolts.

regards

Taffy

Any end play in the crank? just pull the flywheel side out and in to make sure there is some.

Use orangebergs bearings 2 x rollers great quality (hard to get) paid around $130 aus for the pair from memory.

Ktm race team Australia was using them in the 520 ect after finding out Johns little secret part.

John (Orangeberg) have been around a while, we raced against each other many times in our younger years and knows what he is doing with Husabergs.

Hi All,

The mystery is answered.

After splitting the engine and now finding the crank to be rotating freely and no broken casing etc i looked a little closer.

Ive attached pictures to show what i found.

The kick start return spring, had somehow become caught in the one of the gearbox cogs, 2 coils had been dragged through into the gearbox. In some cases the cogs would rotate freely, then occasionaly the spring would jam the gears completely in effect locking the engine.

The spring is obviously ruined, and the plate thats screwed on behind the kickstart cog has a part sheered off that i found and removed. Im really suprised to find this - has anyone had this happen or heard of it happening before?

Luckily there seems to be no damage other than the spring and the plate.

How should the spring be held in place? should the leg with the hook on it be poking through the casing, in hanging into the gearbox section?

Glad ive found the problem.
Hopefully be up and running by the end of the week.


Any tips for reassmebling the kickstart mechanism when i get new parts and put it all back together?


Thanks
Rob

Pretty unusual. Should be a cheap fix though.
tips for installing the Kickstart mechanism are in the "owners doc" under the engine rebuild section.
http://www.husaberg.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

I reckon the plate went first mate. don't blame the spring. it wasn't meant to be in there completely unwound.

surely your kickstart arm was misbehaving?

regards

Taffy

Yeah - should be an easy fix now.

I always use the electric start - has always started on the button first crank, even when cold. The only time ive used the kickstart was once when i first bought the bike - to see if i could after hearing about them being tricky to start.

And then i gave it 3 gentle kicks to get oil around after the service, all i can think is it pinged into the worng place at that point.

Still, never mind, at least i know what happened and can now put it back together.

Do these engines have a balancer in them, has/does anybody run without them?
Years and years ago when tuning Honda 50's and 125's to get every last rev out of them we'd take the balancer cog and weight out. Just a thought.

Will get some pics of my happy bike up when its working again. :O)

I ran without it for a while and as an enduro racer down in the revs they are a pain. it was so bad that I put it back in.

"I couldna take no more Cap'n!"

regards

Taffy

Re: 550 FE - Oil Change - Seize - THE SAGA CONTINUES

Hi All.

Unfortunately - no good news from my end.
I was about to start reassembling the engine with my new kicker spring and plate, readjusted the position of the engine to get a better view of what was doing and a small piece of bearing housing with an 'F' stamped into it fell on the bench.

Further investigating found more bits of bearing race.
I pulled the crank out to find the following failure.

My worry is the balancer has had it too as although it turns freely its 'a bit grindy' and has some play, and from what I understand this is only available as a £200 complete assembly? Are the bearings available anywhere separately - Taffy? Or do I have to by the complete item off the shelf - Should it have any play.

Having read a few threads im sure i am scratching my head in the same way many have done before me, do I replace the stock roller bearings, or do I go for a ball bearing instead.

I still cant work out which came first (or rather went first) the bearing or the spring.

Either way im pretty miffed.

Cheers
Rob.

Forgive any naff spelling mistakes - ive got an eye infection

Has this motor really only done 35hrs? that M B race almost looks blueyish...... mine were alot less marked after 150hrs use..... just curious.

Taffman used to sell just the bearings for the balancer (I bort sum) and yes they are well worth doin whilst apart.

Is the broken race a normal breakdown of the bearing or do they usually just shed the hardening? Seems odd to me that the inner part of the race would break off like that (impacted maybe?).