tuning questions?

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Taffy

Taffy

Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
17,028
Location
Ely, England
ok who has done the following and can give us details please?

firstly, WHO HAS GONE TO tI VALVES OR STAINLESS STEEL? benefits weights, spring change also?

secondly, who has fitted a KTM camshaft? people have talked about it but talk is cheap! which katoom model?

thirdly, I SEEM TO HAVE STRANGE AXIAL ENDFLOAT FIGURES IN THE DOC FOR THE CRANK? .2MM FOR THE 450 BUT THEN .5 AND .6 FOR THE 550 AND 650?????????

regards

Taffy
 
I have tried Ti-valves, but I'm using stainless now. My humble experience says:

Ti-valves need to be of high quality with Ti-nitride coating all over. Maybe with a steel tip and/or lash cap. For standard valve sizes, I see no need, as the cam rollers are cheap.

The stainless last very long time, but they are heavy. I have lightened my stainless 40mm intake valves (from Porsche GT3) to 53-55gr, but I still get valve float at appr. 8,5k.

With roller type main bearings the competition department recommend 0,6-0,8 axial play. I have used 0,6-1,0mm without any downsides. In conjunction to this it is important to make sure the conrods axial play is somewhere 0,4-0,5mm, to ensure enough oil flow. One might get tempted to press the crank together to get enough axial play for the mains...
 
go into popups gallery, infact bring them here if you would of his spherical mains, ktm cam and even his SS and Ti valves!

did you stay with conical valve springs? i get the feeling that there is a far better set up with softer valve springs awaiting.

on your 37/32 head you should go OEM Ti on the inlets and springs to suit? just an idea?

anyway, need more answers.

regards

Taffy
 
Re: RE: tuning questions?

Taffy said:
go into popups gallery, infact bring them here if you would of his spherical mains, ktm cam and even his SS and Ti valves!

did you stay with conical valve springs? i get the feeling that there is a far better set up with softer valve springs awaiting.

on your 37/32 head you should go OEM Ti on the inlets and springs to suit? just an idea?

anyway, need more answers.

regards

Taffy
Click to expand...
Good day, Sir!
I did not understand your first sentence, or if it was addressed to me.

I have stayed with the conical springs. I select the longest springs for my 40mm intake valves. The conical OEM springs are not very hard, compared to other racing applications. As you know, the harsh ramping up/down of the lobes is giving the excessive accelerations.

Maybe I'll have another go with Ti-valves for the 40mm intake valves. The 37/32,5mm valves are screaming up and beyond 9k with a #55-cam, so I see no need for Ti-valves in that engine.

Don't we all need more answers... :)
 
RE: Re: RE: tuning questions?

i think you're missing a trick not to go to ordinary valve springs. it's getting the right ones though! if stainless is doing the job then good!

for you as a roadracer the answer would be in higher revs which will require every extra ounce in weight of the reciprocating parts being ditched!

popup has a nice photo of a spherical bearing which has special oil inlets....

regards

Taffy
 
RE: Re: RE: tuning questions?

I would have liked normal springs in my billet cylinder head. Due to the valves being moved out from the spark plug, there is very little space left for a larger diameter spring.

Yes, weight and spring rate is crucial. I have manufactured upper spring washers from grade 5 titanium.

I'll have to excuse my poor IT-competence, but I cannot find any Popup-gallery? Have I misunderstood something? :oops:
 
RE: Re: RE: tuning questions?

been asked this once already today and it's kinda my fault but he is a dingo lover so we have to forgive him: his other name is weed!

i reckon if belgique can fit standard valve springs then you can too! did you see the photo he put up three weeks ago when he couldn't start it? well it turns out you only need to remove a little alloy from under the rocker cover and all is well. think you need to try it and also look seriously at your mean piston speed and how you can increase it. i only know the 'feet' measurement but 4,500ft per minute is where you need max power nowadays.

regards

Taffy

am i right in guessing you know all about the composite carbon/alloy rod available for the husaberg?
 
RE: Re: RE: tuning questions?

Ah! Weed rings a bell.

I had similar problem with the upper spring washer getting in contact with the cover, on my billet head. It will be even worse with a normal spring...

I'm lazy on the maths. What rpms are we talking about for a mean piston 4500ft per minute? My max piston speed is somwhere around 30m/s.

I know the swedish manufacturer of the "NASA" rods. What I do not have a good answer to is how to finance it. :) What else have you got? I'm a bit sceptic to fiddling around with thingys in the bottom end. Large forces are present and it can get expensive if something fails.
 
ive fitted the ktm cam to my 2000fe501 it was the 55/520 exc cam from the same era. when comparing the two there was no differance except on the sprocket shoulder wich was thinner to suit the steel sprocket. cut the wp shaft off and they are the same as later models you can also get them in 53. i have ran this cam for 15hrs now with no problems. cheers flatchat
 
good to know aussie and the confirmation i needed. i think that they were taking 2mm off the shoulder weren't they? and the coding was that in the parts number or a "reliable source!".

thanks for your help

Taffy
 
ive fitted the steel sprocket as well so the 2mm didnt affect me. the part no i ordered off was 55/520 from the proline ktm store in sydney,. cheers flatchat
 
Taffy said:
ok who has done the following and can give us details please?

firstly, WHO HAS GONE TO tI VALVES OR STAINLESS STEEL? benefits weights, spring change also?

secondly, who has fitted a KTM camshaft? people have talked about it but talk is cheap! which katoom model?

thirdly, I SEEM TO HAVE STRANGE AXIAL ENDFLOAT FIGURES IN THE DOC FOR THE CRANK? .2MM FOR THE 450 BUT THEN .5 AND .6 FOR THE 550 AND 650?????????

regards

Taffy
Click to expand...

Hallo.
We use on our Supermoto race engine a KTM camshaft from the crate 610 engine, 11.0 lift and 272 duration, we loose alot of compr so we have stroked our engine from 628cc to 667cc using the old 644cc crank shaft and a 3mm stroker pin.
40mm TI intake valves with soft KTM 450SX double valvespring. 34mm exaust, same valvesprings.
Double exaust silencer, straight pipes. and a Rally car straight inline Airfilter.
+ some more modifications, oilcooler ect ect.
We started with 51hp rear wheel on the dyno stock engine and we have reached 73hp, but with a nice range, pulls from 3000-9500 rpm, rev limiter set to 10500.
Problems, yes in the begining with main roller bearings, solved that problem still using roller bearing and they last now for 10-16hrs, before max 2hrs.
Regards
Thomas
www.enginehardware.se
 
Taffy said:
ok who has done the following and can give us details please?

firstly, WHO HAS GONE TO tI VALVES OR STAINLESS STEEL? benefits weights, spring change also?

secondly, who has fitted a KTM camshaft? people have talked about it but talk is cheap! which katoom model?

thirdly, I SEEM TO HAVE STRANGE AXIAL ENDFLOAT FIGURES IN THE DOC FOR THE CRANK? .2MM FOR THE 450 BUT THEN .5 AND .6 FOR THE 550 AND 650?????????

regards

Taffy
Click to expand...

Hallo.
We use on our Supermoto race engine a KTM camshaft from the crate 610 engine, 11.0 lift and 272 duration, we loose alot of compr so we have stroked our engine from 628cc to 667cc using the old 644cc crank shaft and a 3mm stroker pin.
40mm TI intake valves with soft KTM 450SX double valvespring. 34mm exaust, same valvesprings.
Double exaust silencer, straight pipes. and a Rally car straight inline Airfilter.
+ some more modifications, oilcooler ect ect.
We started with 51hp rear wheel on the dyno stock engine and we have reached 73hp, but with a nice range, pulls from 3000-9500 rpm, rev limiter set to 10500.
Problems, yes in the begining with main roller bearings, solved that problem still using roller bearing and they last now for 10-16hrs, before max 2hrs.
Regards
Thomas
www.enginehardware.se
 
RE: Re: tuning questions?

thanks thomas

i was told of you by belgiquebatsard and i've visited your web site. thanks again. we were warned some three or four years ago that you could fit a ktm cam but nobody ever did it and now we get two in a week. that sounds like a tornado cam. G2.

you will see some lovely photos of a stroker crank in the doc soon as takis gave me some.

i can guess who's con rod you use. (wink!)

the Ti valves sound interesting? DrC should be interested too. what is the wear life of those as i hear so many bad things?

regards

Taffy
 
her ya go taffy i found yhe proper part numbers for the ktm camshafts they ran the same cam up to 2006 with the 450 using the 55 cam . for the 501 the part no 590,36,010,000 wich is the 55 cam and the 400 is 595,36,010,000 wich is the 53 cam. hope this helps cheers flatchat
 
A competitor is using a KTM-cam, stamped "112". This one was said to be used in a 613cc motor. With 0-play at 1mm lift it measured:
IVO: 24 BTDC
IVC: 61 ABDC
EVO: 55 BBDC
EVC: 22 ATDC

This looks like the lobes from the #62-cam I´m using in my #1 engine. I can confirm that it is working OK.
 
Re: RE: Re: RE: tuning questions?

Taffy said:
been asked this once already today and it's kinda my fault but he is a dingo lover so we have to forgive him: his other name is weed!

i reckon if belgique can fit standard valve springs then you can too! did you see the photo he put up three weeks ago when he couldn't start it? well it turns out you only need to remove a little alloy from under the rocker cover and all is well. think you need to try it and also look seriously at your mean piston speed and how you can increase it. i only know the 'feet' measurement but 4,500ft per minute is where you need max power nowadays.

regards

Taffy

am i right in guessing you know all about the composite carbon/alloy rod available for the husaberg?
Click to expand...

HI
We have used the Aluminium composite con rods for some time, but we dont use them any more, first they dont work with our stroker pin and secondly they are not that much diffrent regarding power and smothness.
//Thomas
 
RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: tuning questions?

what kind of weight saving and money are we talking here? was yours a 135mm rod?

well thanks for your good advice. PM me with the cost of some 37mm ti inlets/32 exhausts and we can let everyon know that you do them.

regards

Taffy
 
Dr_C said:
A competitor is using a KTM-cam, stamped "112". This one was said to be used in a 613cc motor. With 0-play at 1mm lift it measured:
IVO: 24 BTDC
IVC: 61 ABDC
EVO: 55 BBDC
EVC: 22 ATDC

This looks like the lobes from the #62-cam I´m using in my #1 engine. I can confirm that it is working OK.
Click to expand...

I suppose Dr C refer to this engine 610 crate engine, Nice engine just cost approx 4300 euro. http://slorider.com/KTM/literature/rennmotor.pdf
I think that dis is the cam and valves, spring, the hsb SM factory race team use.
Would like to know the sparepart number is for those thing. I think that Ktm have reasonable price for them, and its raceproven parts that works.
So if anyone is sitting on the partnumber for those things. please let me know.
I have searched the internet but cant find it. Those (crate) parts don't seams to exist in he ordinary Ktm part-system?

Best Regards Patrik
 
Dr_C said:
A competitor is using a KTM-cam, stamped "112". This one was said to be used in a 613cc motor. With 0-play at 1mm lift it measured:
IVO: 24 BTDC
IVC: 61 ABDC
EVO: 55 BBDC
EVC: 22 ATDC

This looks like the lobes from the #62-cam I´m using in my #1 engine. I can confirm that it is working OK.
Click to expand...

I suppose Dr C refer to this engine 610 crate engine, Nice engine just cost approx 4300 euro. http://slorider.com/KTM/literature/rennmotor.pdf
I think that dis is the cam and valves, spring, the hsb SM factory race team use.
Would like to know the sparepart number is for those thing. I think that Ktm have reasonable price for them, and its raceproven parts that works.
So if anyone is sitting on the partnumber for those things. please let me know.
I have searched the internet but cant find it. Those (crate) parts don't seams to exist in he ordinary Ktm part-system?

Best Regards Patrik
 

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