trouble at'mill

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Taffy

Taffy

Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
17,028
Location
Ely, England
eeye i, i'll go tut foot or our stairs!

before hitting a concert tonight i started stripping the engine and what have i discovered?

well, there wasn't a drop of water in it! the inside face of the water pump is sooty black with visually clear bubbles. the waterpump impellor has dissolved. i know, you don't believe me, but imagine the waterpump with the blades only half the width and height.

the circlip was still there but the pin has gone completely! all the oil was still there. but the waterpump impellor was literally paste. like imperial leather soap!!!

thinking back, my right thigh got damp after 20 minutes of riding but it wasn't hot- my camelpak sometimes dribbles.... so i reckon i lost all the coolant between the 20th minute and lunchtime. because it was inconvenient to undo the cap- i didn't!

so i guess that without water around it that the impellor packed up and dissolved.

but why did it spit the water out after 20-minutes AND not whilst in a bog or stuck but whilst riding as normal?

the radiator is the problem but is it too small or-as i suspect-are some of the tubes blocked with old age etc?

regards

Taffy
 
Why were you going to strip the motor? Did it expire? Or was it "time".
 
Hey Taffy, If I have been reading your posts up to now right, this is t.he bike with the road bike radiator. I believe you got this radiator from a wrecking yard or e-bay. Then you modified the end of the tanks or something along those lines. Have you thought of putting the stock radiator back on after repairing the water pump? It sounds like your Berg is not liking that new radiator. Did you also fix that splice in the radiator hose?
 
Hello Taffy,

The o. e. water pump impellers are less than desirable in my
opinnion. With frequent use they wear rapidly. As for the coolant
loss my experience has been quite messy and noticable. Check
radiator for excessive pressure or head gasket for seepage. Prob-
ably lost coolant through exhaust not very noticable while riding.

Good luck,
Ryan
 
Taffy you might want to get it cleaned out good. No telling what might still be in it. Also get it pressure tested, need to find out what happened. Once it is debugged it might be alright. Good luck.
 
pulled it apart this evening so i've popped my cherry at last after 40 months of ownership.

the water jacket is black and the deposit at the bottom is treacle so i must have run the bike without water for some time. i really didn't notice it.

what i need to know from UHE is what YOU think i ought to change between the cases. i don't mind doing some things from the left and right after as my money is tight right now.

but i need to get between the cases right.

little bit of scoring twixt piston and on the thrust faces of the bore. specs BTW will be checked in the morning.

i will probably remove the balance weight when i've had a look at it. i'm told that huseys aren't too bad without them.

i need a new b/e i guess and a rod, crank splitting to fit etc. what about all the other bearings in there?

new rings and a glaze bust. any need to go to double row on the balancer? guess there is.

no sign of the impellor locating pin. something serious happened there! will try to find a problem with that this week. if i don't then back to standard rad. gotta have coolant while i rethink!

another thing, i asked mick at SR if i could use the later crescent in the kickstart area and he said that it wouldn't retro fit. does anyone know about this?

i found the screw through the middle of the selector loose again and the crescent screws so i need to think that through because i loctited them in. don't like cross-head screws-i will go to allen head screws.

regards

Taffy

the little end does feel bad though. i feel like going to the 97mm piston (450cc LS motor)now but it's a luxury i can't really afford.
 
I would get rid of the counter rotating balancer, and balance the crank properly, i did it with the 550 and she purs, she's for sale now to fund a trip to the black sea on a heavey ill handling super tenere, but the 400 is stripped and ready for the same trick. when i build them i replace all bearings and seals, and warm the cases when it goes together, i use loctite ultra grey on the case halves and rocker and have had no problems. i seriously considered going to romania on the 400 but got talked out of it in the end! I ran my old 501 at weston last year and split the rad on the first straight, i filled it with water every other lap but it was only really a token gesture as it came straight out before the first corner! i also filled the oil till it came out of the filler, anyway the bike did the three hours with no problem whatsoever, it got too hot to put your hand within three inches of the top end, but when i got home i stuipped it and could find nothing wrong at all - fixed the rad a drove on. With my 03 400 i did fit a higher pressure cap which stopped all pressure release and subsequent water loss even when abusing it hideously in welsh bogs up to the tank. Good luck old boy! Jared
 
jared

thanks for the heads up on that.

i'm replacing the following

rings
little end
big end
mains
rhs crank seal
gearbox out seal + bush
water impellor
steel location pin for above
sidecover bearing for above
seal for above
kickstart crescent
two rocker spindles
headgasket
timing gear shaft bearing
gear selector shaft bush in cover
seal for above
oil filter
gasket for camchain tensioner


i can get a 470 piston but i can't get a sleeve
may skim block to improve squish
sending oil pump away as it is so stiff
removing the balance weight and having a spacer made
NOT balancing the crank
NOT changing the gearbox bearings
gearbox excellent


the '05 camchain tensioner set-up will have to wait.

regards

Taffy
 
You may consider the gearbox bearings, they are inexpensive compared to the rest of the parts. If you get a 470 piston it may need to have the valve pockets milled to except Dales cam. Go easy on the nicasil plating when you deglaze the bore, I would use a ball hone rather than a stone.
 
Be sure to change the little idler bearings for the starter if you have left it in. That $6 roller bearing cost me about $900 when all was said and done. If it was me and it was a bearing or bushing I would change it, you already got it apart. How much is your time worth? at least a couple of quid right? Skip a cuppa and a few pints and do it all the way. You already got your money's worth out of it! I bet we can get you a sleeve for the 97mm piston.

Oh Yea I don't remember any overheating problems from you before you got all blingin with the custom radiator. :twisted: I bet them swedish dudes got that water coolin stuff figured out :D Might want to try some Yoga and get them legs and hips spread. :D :D
 
Cheers Taffy,

You can use the inner races of the ballancer bearings for spacers, and I strongly recomment rebalancing the crank, rod, and Piston assembly.

I would also inspect the mainshaft ball bearing ball cage for cracks or popped rivets.

Regards,

Joe
 
you know bob-you are so right it hurts! :wink: :wink:

i know the problem is the radiator and i'm gradually working my way through all the potential problems. all i have left is 1) blocked radiator tubes and 2) the rad scoops have been brought in parallell and they need to go back to popinting out at say 30-45 degrees.

the leccy boot has been off a month. i still have two baby bearings in the cases and trust that they'll never want to work their way out. as for the gearbox bearings well, yes it's a risk. but i'll check again in the morning and then get on with it.

i'll get that 97mm piston over the winter maybe and get it through maddel as woessner are far cheaper in germany than over here after the importer has had his 30%.

appreciate what you're saying joe so thanks. i have been told today about using the inner race but i have an engineer who will do that in two-minutes.

so i think it may well come down again over the winter.

cheers lads

taffy
 
If you have removed the e starter and the idler gear I am sure the bearings for the idler will not move... tough enough to get out with a blind puller. I ended up using a carbide cutter on a dremel to get mine out.

Just teasing about the radiator hope you get it sorted out. The riding position will be more of what you want. Out here I want more fuel so the slimness in the middle of the bike is something I have given up on long ago. My kx500 had a 4 gallon tank that I blew up to hold almost 4 3/4 gallons. LONG RANGE but fat. I ride like a three legged fat lady anyway so what the heck :D
 
ok

you have to be patient right? well i've had the bike back together and running fine during the later stages of the summer and autumn. the coolant hasn't budged for weeks so the rebuilt engine is settled and we have no leaks.

Back to the small radiator again then!

i have some alloy wheel cleaner that has about 1% acid in it. it's a *******! get that in your cuts or on cheap bolt heads and see it rust things! even your eyes tell you-don't get that on you.

so using two potatoes to bung the exits i have left the radiator with alloy wheel cleaner fluid in it for 3-days. a lot of rubbish has come out and i'm trying another load tomorrow.

i've also got some of this 'ICE' for the coolant. i have a 1.6 BAR radiator cap. new waterpump and hoses sorted. i have also turned out the flaps by a few degrees which should help.

so we'll have another go.

regards

Taffy
 

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