Thermostat?

I noticed that my FS650e has a thermostat but the FS650c does not. Is it needed? Why does the e have it and c doesn't?

my understanding of the thermostat is really only for one purpose...it speeds up the time it takes for the engine to reach operating temp, thereby meeting emissions sooner (a cold engine is a dirty engine in terms of emissions). The C doesn't have it because its a closed course race machine and on-road emission laws don't apply there.

nizzo

Supermotomike,

I also worried about that and I am thinking to remove it becouse I use my berg only on corse.If you also use your berg on corse,try it.Just have attention in engine warm up twice if you remove it,because as nizzo said the thermostat "speeds up the time it takes for the engine to reach operating temp".

Regards sotosberg

if it was my bike i would leave the thermo in , it allows a slower flow rate giving better cooling efficiency

one more quick point on this subject...if you decide to remove it, I strongly recommend removing the hoses along with the stat. Then install the two simple hoses same as on 650C or FC models. If you just remove the stat and keep the by-pass hose, the coolant can continually by-pass the engine and you may overheat.

Also if you ride in the winter, removing the stat and by-pass hose is a very good idea...I have seen guys sieze motors by running a stat at below 0*C temps.
nizzo

whosahberg said:

if it was my bike i would leave the thermo in , it allows a slower flow rate giving better cooling efficiency

Click to expand...

Then why did the FC models not have thermostats?

Have you ever seen any aftermarket stuff for motorcycles that slow down the flow rate so the bike cools better? Nope, everything is high-flow impellers and high flow water pump covers, etc.

I don't buy the slow flow theory, especially when most of my problems on my overheating Husaberg went away after I went to the FC style set up. That is just my personal experience.

Johnf3,

I think what Whosaberg is trying to say is that slowing down the flow allows the coolant to pick-up more heat. If the coolant flows too fast it can pass thrrough the engine without picking up the neccesary heat...then you could be back in an overheat situation. Coolant flow (speed) is one critical dynamic factor to consider when designing a cooling system.

But generally the Berg cooling system is designed to remove all the heat we can give it at slow speeds (unless we violate the clutch for long periods). I agree...put the FC hoses on and call it good (just don't let the EPA stick a probe in your tail pipe when the motor is still cold.
nizzo

Johnf3 said:

whosahberg said:

if it was my bike i would leave the thermo in , it allows a slower flow rate giving better cooling efficiency

Click to expand...

Then why did the FC models not have thermostats?

Have you ever seen any aftermarket stuff for motorcycles that slow down the flow rate so the bike cools better? Nope, everything is high-flow impellers and high flow water pump covers, etc.

I don't buy the slow flow theory, especially when most of my problems on my overheating Husaberg went away after I went to the FC style set up. That is just my personal experience.

Click to expand...

ask dale lineaweaver what he thinks ... thats where my info comes from

why did husaberg give the 05 and on fe models thermos when the 04 models had none

Thanks for the guys. I was curious when I noticed the difference in the spare parts book between the two models.

I remember in older topic that Dale Lineaweaver recomended to leave the thermostat,but I think that the guy who asked,had an enduro and not a supermoto or motocross.I think that this is the point.The factory knew something more when decided to install thermostat only in enduro and street legal supermoto.I dont remember seeing any factory Husaberg supermoto with thermostat the last October here in Greece.The fact that those engines are really pressed to their limits whithout having thermostat,force me to think that for supermoto racing use or corse use only,the FE or FS c hoses are not a bad idea,in my opinion specially the HOT period.I would leave the thermostat if I used my Berg for road use :wink:

Regards sotosberg

whosahberg said:

Johnf3 said:

whosahberg said:

if it was my bike i would leave the thermo in , it allows a slower flow rate giving better cooling efficiency

Click to expand...

Then why did the FC models not have thermostats?

Have you ever seen any aftermarket stuff for motorcycles that slow down the flow rate so the bike cools better? Nope, everything is high-flow impellers and high flow water pump covers, etc.

I don't buy the slow flow theory, especially when most of my problems on my overheating Husaberg went away after I went to the FC style set up. That is just my personal experience.

Click to expand...

ask dale lineaweaver what he thinks ... thats where my info comes from


why did husaberg give the 05 and on fe models thermos when the 04 models had none

Click to expand...

If possible, I prefer to use what has been proven to work for me, by my own testing.

Also, there are many, many mx bikes from various manufacturers that were never engineered to have a Tstat.

I don't believe that the Tstat on a Husaberg was engineered to help overheating by restricting the flow of the coolant. It sure didn't work on my '05. We can agree to disagree--that's half the fun of it.

Took thermo out ran the same without it. No overheating on the road, even in 38C + days here in summer. Would expect longer warmup in cool temps though.

are those custom steal braided hoses?

Yes made them up myself. Had to use ultra flex hose to get the sharp bend to the water pump. It is the only stainless braid that size that will bend that tight.

Spanner,

You made a wonderfull work!!!I really like your hoses!Was it difficault to install them to the radiator and to the pump?Did you machine the pipes to bolt the hose?How much was he cost totaly?

Regards sotosberg

My two cents;

It is my understanding that for an engine to be efficient it needs to maintain about 180F in the water jacket area, minimum. As was posted in this thread, albeit for emissions reasons, a cold engine is dirty engine, and this is because that as we all know when a motor is cold it needs the choke to get started, just as a car engine needs a choke or cold start setting with the injection system until it warms up, IE gets heat in the motor to become efficient and burn the leaner mixture that is present without the choke or enrichment circuit. Ideally, the T stat in a motor maintains an operating range where in the motor runs efficiently, running the motor either too cold or too hot is going to make the motor too lean or too rich. Who has not been able to tell that the bike is getting hot because the throttle response is starting to get "spongy"?

Remember, there were T stats around long before emissions were a worry. As was stated, they do produce some flow restriction, and this only becomes a problem when conditions become more extreme, such as in low speed riding with very little air flow across the radiator, which is not a problem on a car as the radiator has so much built in cooling capacity but, on our bikes we are limited by size but they are as big as possible to keep the bike from over heating, and that's where the fan comes in. In a car we all know that there is a fan to pull air across the rad to assist in cooling. In the "old" days this fan was directly linked to the water pump shaft, as technology progressed there came the fan clutch which allowed the motor to spin without spinning the fan until it got hot then the fan clutch would lock up and spin the fan. This was an easy way for the manufacturers to come up with 10 or so horsepower, and it increased fuel mileage as well since you weren't always spinning the fan. On some cars nowadays there is just an electric fan that is actuated by a temp switch like our bikes.

I remember on my 86 250 KTM which of course did not have a T stat, there was a guide about how much of the radiators to tape off once the temperature decreased below 60 degrees. As the temperature decreased further in 10 degree increments you added another strip of duct tape across one side then the other to the point where if you were riding in temps in the 20's one whole radiator was taped off and the other side was half taped off. This was two fold, to maintain the correct operating temperature range, and to keep the motor from cold seizing. So, if you think about an "Enduro" type bike where the riding conditions can vary tremendously, from tight technical stuff, to very fast open riding, the air flow across the rad and the resulting cooling varies tremendously as well. Whereas a track type bike is going to be ridden hard and with one assumes greater speed. The engine will be producing a lot of heat as well. Where again, the Enduro type riding has a mix of riding really hard, and then you might be going relatively fast but not necessarily using a lot of horsepower and thus the motor isn't producing as much heat.

If it was me, and for the types of conditions that I ride in, which are greatly varying, I would leave the T stat in and add the electric fan. On my 04 the regular fan is too big to place in the normal position because the tank is too close to the rad, however, I am told that it will fit in the center and I am looking into that. I am also buying an 06 tank so that I can add a fan for sure. Sparks has come up with a good winding spec for the Kokusan stator and I will be sending mine off to him for a rewind and then convert my system so that it all runs on DC. As when the fan runs a lot it will pull the battery down. And in the future I may even add the T stat set up to my bike depending on how it all works out. If you remember, when the 05's came out, you could buy an "upgrade" kit for your 04 since so little had changed. This kit had in it, if memory serves, the newer kick start lever, as well as the T stat and the plumbing.

Thanks sotoberg, It is a bit tricky, those blue nuts are just covers over a hose clamp.
I had to turn the water pump inlet down a bit to get the hose on.
The hose is Earls ultra-flex 650 stainless braid, the blue nuts are also from Earls. This is the only braid that will bend sharp enough to the water pump.
I think it cost around $150US.
Cheers spanner.

Thanks for the tip Spanner :wink:

Regards sotosberg

Hi DaleEO,
I believe the same!Thats why I think the factory started to fit thermostats in all enduro and strret legal supermoto as you said.There are going to run in a lot of different driving situations and so in a lot of different temperatures.The enduros at the mountaiins or desert and the supermotos at the city.But in the close tracks the things are different and the driving situations dont change too much from lap to lap.Thinking this I rought my thoughts.That is also the reason that the FSc series still dont have thermostat and neither the FC had till they stopped if I am right.So the factory done it well!!!All its up to how we use our bike and the driving situations we wil going to find or propably sittuations we will going to find.

Regards sotosberg