Street conversion, now electrical gremlins.

I have an '04 FS450E and I installed the euro harness so street lighting would be easier to install. Well it didn't work out that way. The high beam is possessed and only comes on 25% of the time. And the signals (LED two wire aftermarket) have a mind of their own. When I switch the blinkers on, all four illuminate and do not flash. This makes me think I have a ground issue. I know diagnosis from my info is a long shot, but maybe there is a common mistake I am making? Thanks.

Have you checked the '04 wiring diagramm?

Here's a link to download the '04 owners manual.
Find the wiring diagramms at the end of the pdf-file.

Hope this helps...

Yep, I have the manual and followed the diagram when doing the switch, which makes it more curious. The only leads that went unused were a couple of indicater lamp leads and one ground lead that the manual does NOT show as used. I will get out the Fluke tonight and try to track down the problem.

WRT to the led turn signals, did those come with some sort of resistor or other "loading device?" Led's don't pull enough power to allow flashers to work, unless the flasher is designed for led's or the led's have added resistance.

I don't have a clue about the headlight.

Interesting, they appear to have a small resister in the "array" of LEDs, but I cannot say for sure. What kind of static resistance should there be (ohms)?. Then I wonder if anyone makes an LED compliant flasher or if I should add resistors? Thanks a ton.

lendaddy said:

Interesting, they appear to have a small resister in the "array" of LEDs, but I cannot say for sure. What kind of static resistance should there be (ohms)?. Then I wonder if anyone makes an LED compliant flasher or if I should add resistors? Thanks a ton.

Click to expand...

Here is a great product for those that use diode turn indicators etc. Its got to be one of the best!

http://dogitdesign.com/

Regards,

Joe

Here's a possible fix for the led flasher setup. Get a "No Load Flasher"...it's set to flash at a specific rate no matter how many bulbs are connected. Your turn signal circuit should be, if I remember right, ground finding through the switch... LED's won't trigger a no load flasher, so to solve the problem myself, I added a small 12v 1156 (part number) incandescent bulb in series w/ the switch, that drew just enough current to trigger the flasher, and it also indicated that I had my signals on.

Okay, this may not have made sense, but if it triggers a spark in your process (thought) then it worked.

All the guys above are right in that a LED wont pull enough current to triggert a flasher. You can use , as mentioned above a bulb in the circut to give enough resistance and use it as an indacator so you wont be turning "right" all the time like me If you dont want to use the diode that Joe talked about or a light bulb you can always use a resistor.

I did my own conversion on my 501 and I just ran a lead that was hot while running to the switch and then leads from the normal and high beam sides of the switch to the head light. Make sure you use a hot wire with enough load to carry the head light. You can find what color the wire is in the wireing diagram.

Sorry 450 rich I should have read your post first. You got it all right there

Great info guys, thanks. I'm not sure what route I'll go, but at least I know what's happening. However, is it odd that all four are illuminating regardless if I activate L or R on the switch? Thanks again.

It's not odd...its actually quite expected...

Here's what I know. The traditional flasher for a bike is a thermomechanical electromagnetic switch.

There is a coil inside and a bimetallic strip. The current passes through the strip and it heats up (there is a set of contacts on that strip). Current flows into the strip and when it heats up, it moves from a closed (electricity passes to the bulbs) to an open (no electricity passes). If it isn't getting enough current flow (which you won't get with just LED's), it doesn't heat up (the strip) enough to open the circuit (flashing the lights off).

Here's how the circuit should be set up. Positive into the flasher. The ground from the flasher should be routed to the center terminal of the turn signal switch. One set of contacts should be routed through the left signals, one set through the right. When you set the switch to either direction, you allow current to flow (and current flows from negative to positive in a DC circuit) from the battery, through the light, through the switch, through the flasher.

With the switch you are just selecting which pair of bulbs the current path is through.

To use the LEDs...with a "no-load flasher" you have to wire like this:

Positve to flasher. Flasher neg terminal to "indicator" bulb (the 1156) Positive. 1156 Neg to turn signal switch center or common terminal. Turn signal Left to left LED positives, Turn Signal Right to Right LED positives...And of course...each LED to ground.

I can draw a simplified circuit for you...if you need. (by the way...Voltage is the "electron pressure" and is measured from Pos to Neg...but in reality, the electrons "flow" in reverse from Neg to Pos) Basic electrical principles.

When you choose left or right on the signal switch, you are completing the circuit through the required path (left or right).

Did this help?

Cheers!

A simple pic (hey, I'm an electrician, not an artist)

Thanks,more great info. I'll try to wrap my melon around this today. Thanks again!

This something that some others ran into when switching from 1156 bulbs to LEDs in the turn signals. The problem was the lights would come on and stay on. The cure is change the flasher to a electronic one. Takes less power for it to work. The flashers can be found at a auto parts store. Hope this helps.

Just wanted to give an update. The reason all four of my flashers would come on was:

When I switched to the euro harness, it included the indicator sockets for the high beam and the signals (as well as a four prong ignition switch connector), none of these are used in my conversion, so I just taped them back. The problem is that when there is no bulb in the indicator sockets they short out(just the goofy spring prongs). So I cut the sockets out and all is well.

The flashers still don't flash even with an electronic flasher, so I think I need some resistors in line (sorta defeats the purpose )

Anyway, thanks again guys.

FE450Rich said:

A simple pic (hey, I'm an electrician, not an artist)

Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree that the added bulb in the diagram does anything to help aid the use of LED indicators. It actually decreases the current through the flasher unit and the LEDs and makes the no flash problem worse.

A bulb or a resistor must be connected in such a way as to increase the current thru the flasher to make it flash.

If you want to use a resistor it should be about 8 ohms and rated for at least 10 watts. You could connect two 15 ohm 5w resistors in parallel to make it up and they would probably be easier to get. Be aware that this size resistors will only work while the flasher can is working properly. If it gets stuck on, the resistors will cook. For it to survive a permanently on condition it would have to be capable of dissipating 20W - ie big *******s!

To keep the wiring standard you would need two seperate resistors (or two parallel pairs), one across the left LED globe pair & one across the right as there is no way of connecting them to the upstream of the indicator switch and still have the off position work correctly.

I'd recommend the use of resistors is not the way to go. An electronic flasher (like the Dog-It Design unit above) is lighter, smaller, easier to fit, less power hungry and easier to keep going.

Sorry, I've been away for a while...with no internet. So, Ahemm... (clearing throat)...I couldn't continue the debate. May I start again?

Two things that I'll point out.... LED's will not work with a bi-metallic strip flasher unit. An electronic "No Load" unit from the local autoparts store WILL NOT WORK! with LED's only.

The addition of the bulb provides just the right amount of cheap, anyone can install it, load to allow the "NO LOAD" to work properly...That's all.

It increases the resistance in the circuit I drew above. (I've only put the same setup on more than one bike), and it's the cheapest thing you can get from your local spares dealer.

High beam?

I put in the "Euro" wiring harness and everything is fine except that I have no High Beam. I doing this minimalist style, which means no turn indicators, high beam blue indicator, etc. I've checked the wiring diagram, and I don't think I missed anything, but then again I do have so unused wires. Does the bike come stock with a dual filament headlight? Any other easy suggestions before I go nuts with diagnostics? Thanks.

Hi Satex,
My 05 550 came with the Euro wire harness. It has a dual filament bulb which is an Osram Bilux 64185 12v 35/35w bulb (German made). It also came with the small 5w safety bulb. It's by far the best headlight setup I've ever had on a dirtbike. I believe it is quite the spendy bulb but haven't had to replace it just yet. I think BOSS knows of an equivalent bulb at a lower cost.

Hope this helps,
Log

The stock bulb is a dual filament, at least mine was. As far as the low-cost alternative, I believe an H4 halogen bulb from the local auto parts store will plug right in. Get the 50/55w, as that wattage will be the limit your stock system can push.