Starter Problems on '05 FE650

Hey guys,
Have any of you experienced premature starter disengagement when cold? (NO, not "PE"!)

My '05 FE650 starter has begun kicking out WAY too early...even before it gets past TDC. This now happens at least 5 to 10 times before the engine finally kicks past TDC just enough to start (on the first start of the day). Is it possible that the bendix spring is too strong and the starter pinion is not fully engaging the ring gear while the starter just RPM's in neutral (so to speak)?

Can't imagine that the bendix assembly is now dry and not lubed enough to properly slide into place....the bike only has 5 hours total on it now. Isn't it lubed by the gearbox/engine oil anyway?

Could it also possibly be that if the battery is not totally topped off (13.6+ volts), the pinion is not slammed into the starter gear far or fast enough to stay engaged? Since this problem seems to be reduced as the engine warms up, maybe the battery is also being topped off a little more making hot starting easier? Haven't run into this problem with ANY other bike....WTF?

Anybody have this problem before......any other theories??? :?: :?: :?:

i would say take it back to the dealer and say fix it

It's gotta be something simple and the shop I got it from is 75 miles away...in HEAVY traffic 6 days out of the week. Should be able to determine the problem if someone has had this happen before.....I hope!

Have you tried to charge the battery? The same simpthom occures when the battery is week. ( I experianced this because I had no voltage regulator relay in my FSc so there was no charging)

Just an idea.

Have you tried to charge the battery? The same simpthom occures when the battery is week. ( I experianced this because I had no voltage regulator relay in my FSc so there was no charging)

Just an idea.

I had a similar thing happen when trying to start it in snow over Christmas. (Yes we got snow, in Australia, over Christmas! 8O ) The starter would kick in, start to turn the engine then disengage and freewheel. When the bike was warm it worked fine...

In "normal" temperatures it's not a problem at all so it's not something I have persued... sorry. However on the day I put it down to the very cold weather reducing the output of the battery. Similar theory to what some said above. Good luck

Is the sprag clutch slipping? The motor turns but does not engage especially cold? Check you autodecompession device for wear, make sure it has the required lift.
There has been an ongoing debate that perhaps using synthetic oil may worsen the problem(the sprag is too lubricated and slips).
You can try cheating by using the manual decompression lever on the bars to get the motor turning over and then release the lever.

Decomp doesn't help if the motor isn't getting pushed over by anything

Unfortunatly big singles and twins and one-way(sprag)bearings have a difficult mechanical life together.Even a small drop in battery strength can cause the starting rpm of the engine to decrease which can result in engine kickback.This kickback force is absorbed by the one-way starter bearing and all to soon it stretches the cage that holds the roller bearing together resulting in a looser fit or grip on the starter drive gear and the all to common slip.As most new machines come from the makers with carb jetting more conducive to good emission readings than is required to ease starting, this only compounds the issue. I do not believe that lubricant choice has any influence on this problem but I may be wrong on this count.The best solution is to plug in your battery to an optimate 3 or other suitable charger between every ride,make sure to use full fuel enrichment when starting from cold or use the kick start.A bit of care and understanding of the difficult job this bearing is asked to do will pay some dividends in it life span.....nsman

Yeah, this reminds me what KTM says about the ES of the RFS, in special the 525EXC...they call it a Electric Restarter and that the rider shoud *allways* use the KS to start the bike when engine is completly cold...the ES , or should i say, the ERS is only to be used with hot/warm engine during a ride,etc.

Hi Rustie,

I have an 04 550 and have similiar issues, it started on the button cold when it was new but began not starting on the button cold when I got about 5 or 7 hours on it. It did get better when I started running the motorex 10-50. I guess less drag with the lower winters number.

But you know what? I got used to the electric start not starting my bike when cold with my 01 501. I think nsman has the right diagnosis, basically the little slipper clutch that keeps things from getting broken when the motor kicks back just doesn't have enough grip when the motor is cold.

Now, with my new bike, I have a system, and the bike kick starts on the first kick EVERY time. If your bike starts on the button when the bike is warm with out problems, just kick start it when the bike is cold. I think it the long run it'll make those components last allot longer.

My system: (I leave the motor at TDC on compression when I store the bike.) Step #1 turn on the gas. Step #2 turn on the choke. Step #3 slowly kick the motor through one cycle until it comes back up to TDC. Step #4 let the kick starter come all the way back up, and kick it. This system works great for me.

Hope this helps,

Hey Dale and all,
Well, after thinking about this for some time (and not yet having taken the starter out for inspection), I'm pretty sure the failure to engage must be caused by some wear or just lack of lubrication on the bendix assembly (the reverse helix section that thrusts the starter pinion out when you hit the button). There doesn't seem to be any other logical reason why it won't stay in contact with the ring gear (driven gear) under starting loads when cold.

There really isn't much to one of these small starters (totally self contained), so the helix could be the problem, or even a bunched up return spring could also be the cause. I've seen this happen several times before when the bendix return spring is actually factory wound in the WRONG direction. These standard wound springs are used in many different applications. Even if the rotation is opposite, they usually still work fine for a little while at least (if not abused). If wound incorrectly, the spring may eventually catch on an end, begin to unwind...straightening itself and preventing full pinion engagement.

I say this because I have now completely topped off my YTZ-7S to it's max of 13.6 volts from a 12.7 volt starting point (which is actually very good) and it still performs (or lack of) the same as before....skipping out of start engagement where it didn't do that at all when new (again, only 5.8 hours ttl).

Tried pulling on the compression release during start and it does NOT kick out then....of course there isn't much load either, and upon release it will start just fine. So....if I can't fix the damn thing, I guess I will just start pulling the C/R before hitting the button. Go figure! :roll: :roll: :roll:

starter woes

A relevant warranty bulletin was issued today for 05 models,call your dealer....nsman

nsman,
Cool....do you have any idea what the bulletin specifically mentioned?

The warr. bulletin is concerning the starter drive system and a problem exists were some damage could occur if not corrected.It is a easy repair for the dealer and they are also to check the torque of a certain nut.Call your dealer asap....nsman......kick start only until you have this repair done

Thanks for the info so far NSMAN, any chance of more details? Like, what model/s are affected? If there a bulletin reference number we can tell the dealer? And so forth.

I could be overreacting but I think this is something it would be good for everyone to be made more aware of.

Cheers!
Steve

STARTER KICKOUT

PS. there is no bindex in your husaberg starter system.But rather a starter ,torque limiter,freewheel,freewheelhub,freewheelgear. Please do not start bike cold with e-starter.Your battery & other related parts will suffer. Use e-starter after bike is warm.Auto decomp is probably ok due to such low hrs. You may want to check valve clearace, A snug 0.10 will alow the motor to turn over easier as it will bleed off more compression.see if that will help. I will chek back to see how things are working out for you!