Rebuild and now vibration

Hi Guys
Rebuilt my 2000 fe501e. New main bearings, new cam, new cam bearings, new clutch shaft bearing, valve job, new piston, new cyl plating, new cam chain, rebuilt crank, new '03 rockers. I think that's it. Got her all back together and after about an hour of use a high frequency vibration developed. I can really feel it in the bars. Makes my hands go numb after a few minutes. It didn't have it before the rebuild. It hasn't gotten any worse, but it hasn't gone away either. I'm gonna tear into it again to see if I missed a bad bearing or something. The rebuild went fine and i replaced anything that was suspect. The fit of the crank into the ball bearing on the one side was not an extremely tight press fit. It was more like a light press fit. Maybe a suspect? Any ideas on where I should focus attention? Maybe counter balancer bearings?
Thanks
Jim

ocotillo_jim said:

Hi Guys
Rebuilt my 2000 fe501e. New main bearings, new cam, new cam bearings, new clutch shaft bearing, valve job, new piston, new cyl plating, new cam chain, rebuilt crank, new '03 rockers. I think that's it. Got her all back together and after about an hour of use a high frequency vibration developed. I can really feel it in the bars. Makes my hands go numb after a few minutes. It didn't have it before the rebuild. It hasn't gotten any worse, but it hasn't gone away either. I'm gonna tear into it again to see if I missed a bad bearing or something. The rebuild went fine and i replaced anything that was suspect. The fit of the crank into the ball bearing on the one side was not an extremely tight press fit. It was more like a light press fit. Maybe a suspect? Any ideas on where I should focus attention? Maybe counter balancer bearings?
Thanks
Jim

Click to expand...

Jim,

Warm it up and drop the oil, looking for metal particles in the oil and on the screen. If theere are some check with a magnet to see if they are magnetic. If you have a magnet sweep check in the bottom of the gear case for metal chips. If you find some pull the clutch side cover and look for problems. I had the clutch side bearing on the transmission main shaft falil on mine a few hours after the dealer put it back together!

I too have a 2000 FE501E, no vibration in it. I would check the engine mounting nuts and the swing arm pivot nut for proper torque.

92 FT LB of the swing arm pivot axle nut

18.5 FT LB on the engine mounting bolt nuts

88 IN LB on the Ex header and the pipe mounting bolts/nuts

Make sure the radiator is secure and not touching the cylinder head

If you have a skid plate on it check the bolts and make sure you haven't picked up a rock.

If all is good then I would verify the torque on the flywheel nut 37 FT LB and the primary gear nut 59FT LB.

Let us know.

Regards,

Joe

Hi Joe
Great tips. There are a few metal chips on the screen. I'll check those out tonight. I'll get in there and check torque too. I'm just starting to take it apart, so I'll report in as I dig deeper.
Thanks
Jim

Checked with a magnet, and nothing stuck. I'm thinking this is a good thing. Checked the torque on all but the primary gear nut (dinner was ready). All checked out good. I'll report in with more as I get time to work on it. I suspect I'll be splittin the cases this weekend.

Jim,

Since you did not say you installed a new cam chain sprocket on the cam, I can assume the non magnetic chips you found are quite small and are from the aluminum cam sprocket.

I forgot to mention to check the starter mounting bolts.

What process did you use for removing and installing the left side crank bearing into the left side case? I heated the case up to 200 C like the manual calls for and it just dropped out. I also installed the new bearing while it was hot, it just dropped in with a light amount of pressure on the outer race.

What process did you use to install the crank into the left side bearing? I heated the case with the new bearing in it up to 200 C and the crank just dropped in (I did not have the proper tool to pull the crank in).

The methods you used are important to the next step since you said the crank fit to the bearing was" like a light press fit" If you pressed the crank into the left side bearing instead of pulling the crank through the inner race with a tool like in the manual that reacts against the inner race of the bearing so as not to damage the bearing yuou might have damaged the bearing.

Did you install a new roller bearing on the right side?

Are you sure you properly indexed the balancer to the crank?

What dimension across the crank bearing mount shoulders did the crank shop press your crank to?

It should be 61.9 - 62.0 mm

Did the crank shop get your connecting rod instal ed correctly with the small end bushing oil hole and the rod oil hole lined up and the side of the rod that the oil hole is drilled from next to the flywheel side of the crank?

Do you have a copy of the 99 Work Shop Manual? If not, you can download one from out "Downloads" section for free.

Regards,

Joe

i would grab the end of the crank at the flywheel and lift it up and down. i would also remove the clutch and check the other end f the crank by grabbing it. plyers around a bit of corrogated cardboard should be enough. i would use two people. one does the job i said with big open jaw pliers. the other person puts their index finger half on the crank and half on the cases. you're looking for movement and if you can shut your mate up and the mouse under the bench - listen for a clonk-clonk!

the next thing is that you didn't put the balancer gear in with the dots matching. not the first time that one's been done!

did you swallow the doc's info on a rebuild?

regards

Taffy

Hi Guys

I'm thinking the same about the aluminum flakes, they are tiny and probably from the cam chain sprocket.

Starter bolts are tight

I did install new main bearings on both sides, and was very careful to avoid improperly loading the bearings. I created my own tools for pulling the shaft, splitting the crank etc. I'm a mechanical engineer by trade, so I know what you are talking about. I'm pretty confident the bearings weren't damaged at re assembly. They might have somehow got messed up after the first hour. we'll see.

Now the comments about the counter balancer are giving me cause to second guess myself. I was very careful to follow the manual. But given the chance, anyone can screw up the simplest instructions. The only thing I can think happened with the counter balancer, would be, that I got it 180 degrees out of sync. Is that possible? I'll find out in a day or two. Are there any good photos anywhere of the counter balancer and crank alignment? The manual pics aren't the clearest.

I'll get in there and double and triple check all the stuff you guys mentioned.

Thanks very much for your replies. I appreciate you guys taking the time to help.

I'll report back in.

Jim

oops... I didn't split the crank, meant to say the case.

Was the crank trued correctly or knocked out of alignment hammering it through the bearings. Not trying to be negative, but have seen it done too many times to not mention it.
dan

oops... I didn't split the crank, meant to say the case.

ocotillo_jim said:

oops... I didn't split the crank, meant to say the case.

Click to expand...

You did write .."rebuilt crank".

Just by dropping the crank assembly from a height of several inches onto a hard surface (garage floor) can shift it out of alignment, depending at what angle it hits the floor.

No it is not 180 deg. out. That would be impossible. The counterbalancer counter weight swings between the 2 counter weights, and would contact the connecting rod. It could be out a tooth or so, but you would notice that right away and not after an hour unless you were really being gentle with it for the first hour and not reving it very high.

Did you by some chance put on a different skid plate?

IMHO

Regards,

Joe

I had the crank rebuilt by Hanson Racing Technologies in Chico. When I got it back I handled it like it was made of glass.

I didn't think I could get the counter balancer out.

I've also removed all of the hammers from the tool box.

I tried it without the skid plate too. Still had the "buzzing bars"

It's sounding more like something went south after the first hour of use. Maybe I should start a pool. Any bets on a bad bearing?

ocotillo_jim said:

I had the crank rebuilt by Hanson Racing Technologies in Chico. When I got it back I handled it like it was made of glass.

I didn't think I could get the counter balancer out.

I've also removed all of the hammers from the tool box.

I tried it without the skid plate too. Still had the "buzzing bars"

It's sounding more like something went south after the first hour of use. Maybe I should start a pool. Any bets on a bad bearing?

Click to expand...

if you take the cranks out, please make that measurement I wrote about on the crank Jim.

Since you did not remove the balancer from the left side case, I bet the bearing is kind of frozen to the balancer. I could not get the balancer bearing out of my case. I took it to my dealer and he checked the bearing and said it was good, O.K. and that to remove it was a difficult proposition requiring heating the case up to 200 centigrade and quickly using a special blind hole bearing puller on it. So I did not replace the bearing. Mine was not frozen onto the balancer and my balancer was easy to remove.

If your engine had any bearing failures that caused chips in the crankcase and scored the cylinder/piston and messed up the large connecting rod bearing on the crank shaft then some of those chips might have gotten into the balancer bearing in the left case. If so, you need to remove the balancer so you can clean the bearing with solvent and compressed air to clean it up. It should be smooth to rotate. If it is rough then it is dirty or damaged. If damaged, it could cause the vibration?

Regards,

Joe

Hi Guys
I think I found the guilty party. I was removing the clutch to perform the test Taffy suggested. When I grabbed the clutch basket, it wobbled around. 8O I pulled it apart and found the bushing was really worn. It's the bronze bushing that the clutch basket uses to ride on the shaft. I'l pop a new one in and try it out. I hope that was it. I kind of like working on it, but I much prefer riding it. Thanks for all the help.
Jim

Taffy said:

i would grab the end of the crank at the flywheel and lift it up and down. i would also remove the clutch and check the other end f the crank by grabbing it. plyers around a bit of corrogated cardboard should be enough. i would use two people. one does the job i said with big open jaw pliers. the other person puts their index finger half on the crank and half on the cases. you're looking for movement and if you can shut your mate up and the mouse under the bench - listen for a clonk-clonk!

the next thing is that you didn't put the balancer gear in with the dots matching. not the first time that one's been done!

did you swallow the doc's info on a rebuild?

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

Well there I go following directions again. :? I tried the new clutch bushing, no improvement. Split the cases, and guess what?? The dots were aligned. When I re assembled previously I followed the Husaberg manual instructions exactly, and lined up the dots. Now that I have it apart I can see that the weights are not opposed to each other with the dots lined up. When the dots are matching the weight is off a few degrees. I thought since the manual said to do it this way, that was correct. There I go thinking again.

I'm assuming from Taffy's statement above, that the dots should NOT line up and that is is more important to make sure weights are exactly opposed to each other????

Is this in The Doc? I read that thing from cover to cover twice.

hi jim

dots lined up? are you on about the ones on the balancer within the cases?

i fitted my crank through the balancer as it laid within the left case half. therefore i had to make my own timing mark on the back of the balance weight and then continue.

i can't see the balance weight when the engine is built so what am i missing here? it's me i'm sure...thicko!

regards

Taffy

Hi Taffy
It's a 2000 model, and in the manual it says to line up the dots. There is a dot on the gear that is attached to the crank, and there are two dots on the counter balancer gear. If the dots are lined up, the counter balancer weight is not exactly opposite to the weight on the crank. If I assemble the counter balancer with the dots out of alignment by one tooth, then the weights are exactly opposed. I may not be describing clearly. I can get a digital camera tomorrow and take a picture or two.
Thanks
Jim

jim they're not there to balance up and down, they're there to balance back to front. this is when the crank has the big end at either 3 or 9 o' clock and the balance weight is at 9 or 3 o' clock.

maybe someone else can throw some light on this like a dealer who regularly strips them.

if i were you i'd find the dave clarke racing site in the uk and there you'll find the email address' for the head, head of parts, head of workshop etc. ask the head of the workshop.

either that or JoeUSA will pipe up soon.

regards

Taffy

It's Fixed !! It was the crank. It was damaged in shipment back to me from the first re-builder. I took it to a local motorcycle machine shop. Racers Machine in Escondido Cal. I highly recommend him. The crank was out .003", He brought it back to .001" or better. No more vibration !! The balancer was reassembled according to the manual, so it appears the manual has no errors. I can ride now !! Thanks to JoeUSA and all the guys who helped !!