Leakdown test results ..... UPDATED

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Joined
Apr 6, 2007
Messages
190
Location
Gormley, Ontario, Canada
07FE550 with 30 hours on it (per stock speedo unit).

This engine has always made a noticeable humming or rubbing noise from the engine when under load at medium revs (quarter through half throttle) in third gear and up. This is a linear sliding type sound, that I can only see as being the piston. Is this typical of these bikes? It makes me wonder if the compression ring might be stuck. I think the engine has slightly more vibration than when I first ran it.

I did a leakdown test. With 100psi on the primary gauge, the secondary gauge was 88psi. This equates to 12% leakage. No air noise at the muffler outlet or air cleaner, just at the oil filler plug. The air was leaking through the piston rings. By the time I had assembled the pieces necessary to make the tester, the engine had cooled off to only slightly above room temperature. I have read that the test should be done on a warm engine. A warm engine would have less end gap on the rings due to temperature expansion. I'm just not sure if this would make a large difference. If the test results showed 20% or more, I would take it apart to investigate. At 12% does it need a teardown?

On to the next item: Lots of little flakes in the oil on every change (changing it every other ride, total 200km before change). The drain plug has a normal furriness with the odd tiny sliver, a few small bits (nothing recognizable as an engine part). The oil (Motul 300V 15-50) comes out dark, but does not smell or feel really beat up.

There are always a few flakes that wind up sitting on the screen, but these are the same as the ones in the oil. The flake size varies up to about 1mm square maximum. Very shiny but not magnetic. I haven't tried to measure the thickness of one, but they are very thin. I would say from 50 to 100 flakes in the pan each time. I think this quantity of flakes indicates something could require attention soon.

I'm still a little rich on the jetting, but other than the issues just mentioned, the bike seems to operate fine. Recommendations?
 
Recently I did a compression test on the motor. Using the estarter (normal valve clearance) with the throttle open, it came in at 120 PSI. With the kickstarter I could only get it to 85 PSI. I turned the exhaust valve tappets to one and a quarter turns out to defeat the auto decomp, but the estart could no longer turn the motor (as expected). I stood on the kicker and it would very slowly move as the compression bled past the rings. This tells me that the piston and rings are likely fine.
It was recommended to me to cut the filters apart for further inspection. I did this on the last two filters and they both show large quantities of speckles. I have concluded that the motor must have a bearing issue "in the works". My guess is that the counterbalancer bearings (or mains) must be making the hum I hear under load. The season is almost over here, so the motor will be disassembled soon.
 
i sat here reading this having missed your first post (unbelievable i know giving that i live just behind the blue border of the screen) and i was shouting "mains" then you mention the flakes on the second post it's in the filter so yes mate, like my mate chris who had that whining noise for a season - your mains are U/S.

regards

Taffy
 
man it's only done 30 hours

when you start getting flakes like that it means you need to internally inspect

i had flakes from worn roller rockers , i had flakes from a worn cam chain flapping around .
watch out for the big one ... mains
 
Neil, quit worrying about the strange noises and ride it like you stole it. My berg makes a new strange noise every time I take it out. Stay away from the doomsday threads on this board, they just make you paranoid... I have 120 hours (4K miles) on my '05 650, cheeseburger has a least 10K on his 550 and just pre-ran with his bike to Cabo from Ensenada. Jimmy Lewis from Dirt Rider took apart their long term test bike with well over 200 hours and it looked just fine. They raced two 24 hour events, Elsenore GP and a few other races, beat the piss outa it and the motor ran fine... LOOK MA, NO MAIN BEARING ISSUES. People on this board are paranoid... ride it and have fun.

BTW: I get fuzzy stuff all over the drain plug, its no big deal. I started running Delo 400 and it shifts better, doesn't make quite as many strange noises, and the drain plug is cleaner.
 
It's not the noise I'm concerned about. It's the fact that it sounds unusual AND has speckles in the filter. The speckles concern me enough to investigate. The magnet is fuzzy but that's normal. Now that I'm comfortable riding the bike and want to push it harder, I need to be sure there are no issues. I don't post here to complain or scare off potential customers. Every manufactured product can have a problem sometime. If it turns out there is nothing wrong, I'll definitely let you know.

If everyone in the world only ever had to worry about possibly changing a bearing in their motorcycle engine, it would be a much better place.
 
Neil_E. said:
It's not the noise I'm concerned about. It's the fact that it sounds unusual AND has speckles in the filter. The speckles concern me enough to investigate. The magnet is fuzzy but that's normal. Now that I'm comfortable riding the bike and want to push it harder, I need to be sure there are no issues. I don't post here to complain or scare off potential customers. Every manufactured product can have a problem sometime. If it turns out there is nothing wrong, I'll definitely let you know.

If everyone in the world only ever had to worry about possibly changing a bearing in their motorcycle engine, it would be a much better place.

FB!!!! :x

"he is the messiah"
"i'm not the messiah!"
"oh yes you are, and i've seen a few messiahs in my time"
"only the real messiah would say he wasn't the messiah!"
"oh ok i am the messiah!"
"he is the messiah - see!"
"i'm not the phukin messiah! how many times do i ahve to tell you!"
"i was blind but now i can see! -aaaaaah!"

sorry. nobody else will understand me! :( :(

i want my mummy :cry:

regards

Taffy
 
"Bring me a Shruberry!"

"Run away, Run away"

"Go away or I shall have to taunt you second time"

Python fans are everywhere....

Cheers

Mark
 
Hi Neil,

I would of thought with the bearings being of a metallic nature and therefore you would have metal flakes/particles on the drain plug magnet.
Are the flakes metallic or non metallic. 30 hours seems a bit sad for a set of mains, I would expect to longer than that even if they had been run on chip fat. I think more you listen the more noise you here. They do sound a bit on the harsh side due to all the straight cut gears but if there was some afoot I think the noise would stand out like a sore thumb.
You could say this is a wishful thinking posting, hope it turns out to be nothing to bad.

Regards

Sparks.
 
Neil_E. said:
It's not the noise I'm concerned about. It's the fact that it sounds unusual AND has speckles in the filter. The speckles concern me enough to investigate. The magnet is fuzzy but that's normal. Now that I'm comfortable riding the bike and want to push it harder, I need to be sure there are no issues. I don't post here to complain or scare off potential customers. Every manufactured product can have a problem sometime. If it turns out there is nothing wrong, I'll definitely let you know.

If everyone in the world only ever had to worry about possibly changing a bearing in their motorcycle engine, it would be a much better place.

Metal debris on the oil drain magnet is a worrisome sign of trouble within the motor. It's good you pay attention to these signs as you service the bike.

Fresh motors will shed some small metal shavings and bits into the oil during break-in but this activity should decrease over time with use. Any unusual increases of metallic shavings or sludge on the drain magnet says there's some kind of internal motor trouble afoot.

If/when your motor comes apart for inspection the specific trouble will become more readily apparent to the naked eye. Most problems are rarely a disaster, probably a bearing or two gone kaput. At 100 engine hours I had valve rocker-arm roller bearings beginning to fail, slowly shedding shiny metal bits into my oil. When we had the rocker arms out we found the rocker-arm rollers were rolling kind of crunchy, aka not rolling smoothly. The tiny bearings within were failing and ending up in the oil. It was good I stopped to solve that issue early before it could cascade into damaging other parts.
 

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