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is it possible to change/modify my 2008 550 into a 650? and if so, what is required to do so? is the piston the same size?
thanks, frank
thanks, frank
is it possible to change/modify a 08 550 into a 650?
- Thread starter franknorway
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you could do it but you would need to make a 20mm head packer to raise the liner, buy a matching 628 crank/rod (80mm stroke), piston and liner and a longer camchain. or do it with the 644 bottom end and then you can use the same piston I think.
then to polish it you would probably need a different ignition curve in the ECU
then to polish it you would probably need a different ignition curve in the ECU
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no need for a different ignition curve, unless you spend all day dawdling.
you have a 13.5mm tall piston and the lowest you can go to is 12.2mm. so thats 1.3mm you can find. you usually get 0.6mm too much squish which now makes it just about 2mm. so if you can increase the throw by 1mm (stroke 2mm) you can gain about 20cc. this can be done with an offset pin.
too much effort...
regards
Taffy
you have a 13.5mm tall piston and the lowest you can go to is 12.2mm. so thats 1.3mm you can find. you usually get 0.6mm too much squish which now makes it just about 2mm. so if you can increase the throw by 1mm (stroke 2mm) you can gain about 20cc. this can be done with an offset pin.
too much effort...
regards
Taffy
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Lazy bugger
you could run the 550 ignition but i would'nt expect the big end to last very long
reckon I could knock up a head packer inside a day
I don't get what you are on about with the pistons and deck height, isnt the 644 piston the same as the 550?
old part number 200 246-01 Piston complete 550 / 650 / ø100 mm
the 628 piston is different (as I said). if there is a discrepency in whatever configuration just make the headpacker to suit and relocate the cam bearings, easier than the offset pin and has been done before.
you could run the 550 ignition but i would'nt expect the big end to last very long
reckon I could knock up a head packer inside a day
I don't get what you are on about with the pistons and deck height, isnt the 644 piston the same as the 550?
old part number 200 246-01 Piston complete 550 / 650 / ø100 mm
the 628 piston is different (as I said). if there is a discrepency in whatever configuration just make the headpacker to suit and relocate the cam bearings, easier than the offset pin and has been done before.
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who is on about a 650 piston? if you want a shorter piston you look elsewhere. try a 470 skimmed. i have an even shorter one from somewhere else as well.
I'm not lazy, ignition curves are only important up to about 3,500 revs and the power and pressure isn't there to worry about except for maybe an out and out racer. detonation would be bad but we're not talking detonation/pinking.
regards
Taffy
I'm not lazy, ignition curves are only important up to about 3,500 revs and the power and pressure isn't there to worry about except for maybe an out and out racer. detonation would be bad but we're not talking detonation/pinking.
regards
Taffy
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Taffy said:
you ya deaf numpty :roll: you're on about comp heights of pistons for an application where you need to make a head packer !
detonation...... ignition advance under load....teeny mainjets ... big end failure
but you could always blame the stroke/rod ratio
merry christmas
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Frank has an '08 Bushie so I'm not on H numbers. they don't share the same piston from 2004 or so. totally different.
your saying he should fit a (650) 14.4mm piston in when the std 550 piston is 13.4? why would he go taller?
big end failure? no I never mentioned that either Bushie? not in this thread or the rod length thread? are you sure you're even on the right site?
i think you're losing it...
regards
Taffy
your saying he should fit a (650) 14.4mm piston in when the std 550 piston is 13.4? why would he go taller?
big end failure? no I never mentioned that either Bushie? not in this thread or the rod length thread? are you sure you're even on the right site?
i think you're losing it...
regards
Taffy
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Taffy said:
I lost it years agoit doesn't matter which year engine you've got or which piston you use if you have to make a head packer
if you could be bothered to read my first post up there you'll see what Ive said makes perfect sense
as I said you're going on about deck heights in a way that doesn't make any sense at all for this thread and yet again you are unwilling or unable to explain yourself.
as for me being off topic or "off site" it depends how narrow minded you are as reader. In fact you have brought up the big end by recommending a 550 ignition for an 80 or 82mm stroke. That is asking for big end failure.
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i'm talking DIY here there is no money involved unless you're a numpty who needs an engineer to make everything
why is it asking for trouble?
you better tell Weed, hes done it allready :?
I still don't get what you're on about with piston deck heights, are you quietly suggesting that your 300gm flat top is needed ?
why is it asking for trouble?
you better tell Weed, hes done it allready :?
I still don't get what you're on about with piston deck heights, are you quietly suggesting that your 300gm flat top is needed ?
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no, I said that the 470 is 12.2mm so you now have it recorded. AND you can lose a bit of metal off the top of the squish as well. always worth a bit. you could also consider a shorter rod?
70mm stroke x 1.7ar = 119mm and that is the 400. a 400 rod would go straight in. that is 5mm shorter than the factory rod. so you could add 10mm to the stroke. and what is 10mm Bushie - a 650 crank! problem is, the 644 is actually 82mm stroke and the 628 has a bigger pin.
your biggest problem though isn't any of these things and all I leave you with is the clue: teeth!
regards
Taffy
70mm stroke x 1.7ar = 119mm and that is the 400. a 400 rod would go straight in. that is 5mm shorter than the factory rod. so you could add 10mm to the stroke. and what is 10mm Bushie - a 650 crank! problem is, the 644 is actually 82mm stroke and the 628 has a bigger pin.
your biggest problem though isn't any of these things and all I leave you with is the clue: teeth!
regards
Taffy
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ah so your just 23 steps ahead and looking for perfection
as I see it if you have a set of 550 cases and you want to make a 650 all you need to do is add about 20mm to the top of each case or use a cylindrical spacer
then what you have is essentially a set of 650 cases.
you could even buy a set of 650 cases ...
then given that there are plenty of engines built up inside 650 cases hapilly whirring away in various configurations and putting smiles on their owners faces I couldn't understand why you thought it would be too much effort and need offset crank pins and modified pistons.
as I see it if you have a set of 550 cases and you want to make a 650 all you need to do is add about 20mm to the top of each case or use a cylindrical spacer
then what you have is essentially a set of 650 cases.
you could even buy a set of 650 cases ...
then given that there are plenty of engines built up inside 650 cases hapilly whirring away in various configurations and putting smiles on their owners faces I couldn't understand why you thought it would be too much effort and need offset crank pins and modified pistons.
or maybe just admit that its all a waste of time and effort. Increasing the capacity of a 550 to a 650? using allsorts of different parts/spacers/all sorts of general pissing around? hows about either tuning the 550 (as we all know they can make almost 650 power) and they turn better ! If you want a 650 then buy one :evil:
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Taffy said:you just don't get it do you Bushie. I really can't be bothered with this....
look a 550 with a 400 rod? off the shelf. doesn't need an engineer. just the molars, eye and inscissors as i say.....
regards
Taffy
you've explained Sweet FA about the specifics of which cases/crank/rod/piston etc and yes you are 100% right I DO NOT GET WHAT YOU ARE ON ABOUT !
FWIW nobody else does either :cry: :cry:
you've taken an idea that is allready not really worth doing the simple way and turned it into a complicated line of dribble that is so disjointed and confusing that nobody can understand it.
I can't take credit for this description of Taffys recent posts but it had me in stitches "all over the place like a mad woman Shieeeetingg"
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yet again your slagging me off. I can't help it that you don't understand, you may of course say you speak for everyone but unless you see more here agreeing with you its not true is it?
so why don't you lay off the personal stuff?
now as i say, it's easy but I just won't work with a petulant child.
regards
Taffy
so why don't you lay off the personal stuff?
now as i say, it's easy but I just won't work with a petulant child.
regards
Taffy
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