Husaberg AC Relay

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H

Horto

Joined
Jun 22, 2001
Messages
102
Location
Melbourne Australia
Can you get a regulator that switches on when a AC voltage is detected but passes through DC. Why I ask is I want to be able to have my headlight run on DC from the battery but I don't want them to be able to run without motor running to avoid flattening battery.

I hate the lights running of the AC as the output varies so much and dims whenever any other device draws power, ie heated grips or brake lights. I have already wire brakes onto DC to avoid having lights dim when braking down hills etc.

Cheers Horto
 
I attempted something similar for my hot grips, i.e. I wanted to try them on DC rather than AC and have them shut off automatically when the engine was stopped. I tried several switches, none of which would respond to the AC signal therefore they didn't work.
 
Horto
1. Connect power from the battery, through the fuse (you can use the one connected to the battery as it is in the bike), through the contacts of a standard 12V DC power relay (eg driving light relay) to the positive of any electrics that you want to run only when the engine is running.

2. Connect the coil of the relay directly across the AC from the stator. The relay coil will be rated for DC, but it should work OK on AC (if it doesn't, post me, you may have to add an extra diode).

When the engine is running the AC from the stator will pull in the power relay & allow the electrix to run from the battery. The AC also goes into the rectifier in the usual way to charge the battery & power the electrix.

When the engine stops so does the AC. The diodes in the rectifier prevent power coming back from the battery to continue to power the relay coil. No power on the coil opens the relay & turns off the electrix.

Post if you have any problems.
 
Thanks Brad

Its ussing the AC to turn relay on that I'm not sure about. Will give it a go and report back.

Cheers Horto
 
Lots of relays use AC through their coils without a problem (eg mains powered relays). Putting AC through a DC rated coil will tend to reduce the current that flows through it due to the inductance of the coil. This inductance should be quite low in a Bosch 12V type relay. If the relay tends to buzz on AC, just connect a diode (eg 1N4001 or better) is series with the coil. This will block half of the AC so that the coil runs on a pulsating DC.

I was thinking - my bike had a relay already fitted to control the 12V electrix off the ignition switch. I found it to be a problem because, if you left the key on, the battery would get drained flat by power going through the relay coil even when all the lights were turned off. If your bike has this relay you could simply change the wiring so the relay coil does not get powered thru the ignition switch but instead gets run off the AC.
 
Hi Bundybear I have question would this work on a floating stator connecting terminal 85 and 86 to each wire comming out of stator?

Thanks VIKING
 
VIKING said:
... would this work on a floating stator connecting terminal 85 and 86 to each wire comming out of stator?
Click to expand...

Should do. Relays that have two seperate coil connections such as the 85/86 terminal ones do not care what voltage either terminal is at with respect to ground - they just don't like having too high a voltage applied between the terminals for long as it smokes the coil. I assume there is also a regulator conneted across the floating stator in your bike to stop the voltage getting too high. If there isn't then the system would blow up other bits anyway.
 
Hi BundyBear I wired relay term 86 and 85 to each wire coming out of
floating stator did not work added a diode same result next I wired stator
lead to 86 and 85 to ground with diode it worked as long battery was charging but when batt. was charged up voltage became to low to close relayit cycle on and off as batt. was charging each cycle would last about a minute well I am out of ideas
VIKING
 
Viking
What kind of stator - SEM or Kokusan? I'm assuming the SEM.

If it was SEM, did you connect between the big blue wire & one (or both connected together) of the yellows? This is correct.

If you connected across the two yellow wires you don't get any voltage as the output of the two windings cancel each other out.

If you did try the first way & it did not work, you will have to connect a diode better than 50V @ 1A in series with the relay coil, and a capacitor, probably better than 1000uF, 35V across the coil. Be careful to get the polarity the right way around on the capacitor or it will rupture & send bits of paper eveywhere. It should work as you require, don't give up.
 
Hi BundyBear its a Trail tech rewound kokousan stator with floating ground SEM and OE kokousan has fixed ground in stator chassi sorry I
was not clear on what stator i had
thanks VIKING
 
Do you have any info on how its outputs are connected to the rest of the electrical system? If the stator can charge the battery (Which it must be able to do - that is a main reason why it is there!) then it has to be possible to take a second connection from the stator AC output, through a rectifier (diode) or rectifier bridge (four diodes) to drive the coil of the 12VDC power control relay.

If the power supply to the relay coil is connected across the same two stator wires that go off to the regulator/rectifier then it has to work.
 
Thanks Brad for trying solve my charging dilemma This is how its wired
there are 2 leads out of stator yellow and white and the stator is not
grounded through its stator chassi each stator wire are connected to individual inputs on voltage reg./ rectifier [trail tech] there are one ground wire and output [to batt.] then batt. to 30 on relay 87 to lights
first attempt stator wire yel. to 86 , stator wire wht. to 85 = relay inop.
second attempt same as above but with diode in series on 85 =relay inop third attempt stator wire yel. to 86 then 85 to ground with diode in series =would only close relay batt was charging and in previous attempt I have connected lights to stator wire yel. but would only light up if batt. was low or load was put on batt. I have talked to engineer at Trail tech and Baja
design they said that how want it work is impossible I dont think they tried very hard. I have since learned that Baja design dual sport kit has
the the feature that I am looking for engine running lights on and in the
modification they float ground on stator Honda does things diffirent on the CRF250X they ground relay via ignition module thanks again for reading long winded post I dont how to get a wiring diagram on this page without
having a gallery
VIKING
 
VIKING said:
there are 2 leads out of stator yellow and white and the stator is not
grounded through its stator
Click to expand...
Have you confirmed this is so by disconnecting both yellow & white wire from the Trailtech reg/rect unit & measuring resistance with a multimeter between either wire & the bike frame? Resistance should be higher than 10k ohms, maybe even infinite. The connections you describe to the reg/rect sound correct.

You said:
first attempt stator wire yel. to 86, stator wire wht. to 85 = relay inop.
Click to expand...
Have you measured the AC voltage with a multimeter between the yellow & white wires (with them reconnected to to Trailtech) with the engine running? You should see 10 to 25 AC volts, depending on the type of multimeter you are using. If this voltage is less than this then the charging system is not working and you must have other problems. By “relay inopâ€Â
 
Hi Brad thanks for thinking about this problem did some test here is result
#1 stator is open to ground infinite ohms
#2 AC volts when batt is charging aprox. 14 volts after running the engine
for 5min voltage would decrease to 4 volts and if load the batt with
addisional lights voltage go up to 14 volts
#3 I think it is a 3amp diode # on diode 1N540619728M it has a silver stripe on one end
#4 Dont know what you are looking for but I give it shoot if yel or wht wire are ground what would it matter after thinking about this I would
considered them both since we are working AC voltage and I was not
shorting the circuit since it had electrical load on circuit [coil windings in
relay]
#5 I agree but its eluding a simple solution
this is how the charging system works I think any way the voltreg/rectifier is shunting down stator voltage once batt reached full
charge since control B+ and ground at same time I am starting beleve
those engineers I know what benefit a floating ground stator have
compared to a conventialy grounded stator ? thats all now my head hurts THANKS VIKING
 
What you described makes sense. The regulator will only let the stator voltage get up to about 14V each AC cycle before it turns on & shorts the stator out – that is how it prevents the voltage going too high.

As the battery comes up to full charge the system uses almost no power from the stator so its voltage rises up to 14V very early in each AC cycle. This means that the regulator has the output from the stator shorted out for most of the time. The power coming from the stator/regulator is effectively a series of very short duration “spikesâ€Â
 
What you described makes sense. The regulator will only let the stator voltage get up to about 14V each AC cycle before it turns on & shorts the stator out – that is how it prevents the voltage going too high.

As the battery comes up to full charge the system uses almost no power from the stator so its voltage rises up to 14V very early in each AC cycle. This means that the regulator has the output from the stator shorted out for most of the time. The power coming from the stator/regulator is effectively a series of very short duration “spikesâ€Â
 
Hi Brad I connect capacitor and it works, I went with 2200 uf capacitor
THANKS for expert advice
VIKING
 
Horto - Did all that make sense to you? The question was originally yours...
 

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