How about a "SuperDuty" 650 for the desert guys??
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RE: How about a "SuperDuty" 650 for the desert guy
I know what you mean, I love desert riding and have two XR650R's which are bullet proof and, at times, boring. My Husabergs are more fun, light and responsive. Although a lot has been said about reliability differences, I've yet to experience any problems and don't expect any either. I ran all my husy's hard for the first year (warranty period) and now just run normally and try to keep the revs to a resonable level. Two of them are street legal (550 & 650), no cush drive and make great road bikes. I'm smooth on the gears and throttle, but love to rip. I think the berg engines are good enough if you stay within the envelope.
I know what you mean, I love desert riding and have two XR650R's which are bullet proof and, at times, boring. My Husabergs are more fun, light and responsive. Although a lot has been said about reliability differences, I've yet to experience any problems and don't expect any either. I ran all my husy's hard for the first year (warranty period) and now just run normally and try to keep the revs to a resonable level. Two of them are street legal (550 & 650), no cush drive and make great road bikes. I'm smooth on the gears and throttle, but love to rip. I think the berg engines are good enough if you stay within the envelope.
Re: RE: How about a "SuperDuty" 650 for the desert
Nope, it's a Husaberg... and it's my FE750e. Built for the desert and pretty much has what you've specified, ie - bigger bearings, stronger crank and rod, 3-ring piston, etc.
And it weighs about 100lbs. less than the KTM 690 Baja.
:thumbup:
Johnf3 said:
Nope, it's a Husaberg... and it's my FE750e. Built for the desert and pretty much has what you've specified, ie - bigger bearings, stronger crank and rod, 3-ring piston, etc.
And it weighs about 100lbs. less than the KTM 690 Baja.
:thumbup:
Sounds like you need to fit the JBS Racing kit (i think was primarily developed for sidecars if you look at the JBS Racing Website) that takes it up to 75 though, maybe the JBS Piston and oil cooler etc without the longer sleve, and cyl extension would achieve what you are after.
Then once you have a serious contender in terms of engine durability and performance, build some kevlar / C/F 'Adventure fairings' and put the chalenge up to the KTM 620 Adventure - Tall order though.
Azza.
Then once you have a serious contender in terms of engine durability and performance, build some kevlar / C/F 'Adventure fairings' and put the chalenge up to the KTM 620 Adventure - Tall order though.
Azza.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2005
- Messages
- 184
- Location
- Sacramento, California
Re: RE: How about a "SuperDuty" 650 for the desert
Nope, it's a Husaberg... and it's my FE750e. Built for the desert and pretty much has what you've specified, ie - bigger bearings, stronger crank and rod, 3-ring piston, etc.
And it weighs about 100lbs. less than the KTM 690 Baja.
:thumbup:
Wow! That is so cool!
How does it run? Any additional vibration? Cooling issues? And... how much did you spend? 8O
PowerCell said:
Nope, it's a Husaberg... and it's my FE750e. Built for the desert and pretty much has what you've specified, ie - bigger bearings, stronger crank and rod, 3-ring piston, etc.
And it weighs about 100lbs. less than the KTM 690 Baja.
:thumbup:
Wow! That is so cool!
How does it run? Any additional vibration? Cooling issues? And... how much did you spend? 8O
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2001
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- 17,028
- Location
- Ely, England
RE: Re: RE: How about a "SuperDuty" 650 for the de
ben has told me just recently that JBS have managed to get everything inside the original engine now so that you can't see a spacer/head gasket from the side. i think they shortened the length of the rod maybe and used a shorter piston crown? so the mark2 engine should be really good.
however how come the title of this thread insisted on a bullet-proof bike and ends up talking about a 750??????????????/
if the bike is considered unreliab;le (and that's still an 'if'!) then you detune the standard bike and make what we in the UK would call a 'cooking' engine.
someone mistook lowere revs or whatever for equalling less stress -there isn't! there's more with a 750.
regards
Taffy
ben has told me just recently that JBS have managed to get everything inside the original engine now so that you can't see a spacer/head gasket from the side. i think they shortened the length of the rod maybe and used a shorter piston crown? so the mark2 engine should be really good.
however how come the title of this thread insisted on a bullet-proof bike and ends up talking about a 750??????????????/
if the bike is considered unreliab;le (and that's still an 'if'!) then you detune the standard bike and make what we in the UK would call a 'cooking' engine.
someone mistook lowere revs or whatever for equalling less stress -there isn't! there's more with a 750.
regards
Taffy
Re: RE: Re: RE: How about a "SuperDuty" 650 for th
Oh Taff, you're missing the whole point here. The title asks about a bullet-proof bike for the desert. If all they wanted was to build a bike that would run forever, we'd have a Husaberg logo on an old Honda CT70... :lol:
But the point is having a bike that can run, at desert speeds, for very long periods of time. This task is always best achieved with displacement. That's why Honda made the 650. That's why KTM has run a 660, and is now choosing to run a 690 in the desert.
In order run speeds of 100mph and over for hours on end, you need torque, and lots of it. It's RPM's that destroys these engines. But you can't get enough HP out of a smaller engine without winding them to the point of self destruction. I think Jonah learned that lesson the hard way in Dakar this year, trying to run his 525 against the factory 690's.
Now as far as Ben's 750 goes, he's done so much to make long term reliability the focus of his engine, that it lends very well to desert racing. It's not just a bore and stroke job. It's 40% larger main bearings. A 4130 CrMo tapered crank that simply just won't flex. Larger crank and piston pins. Long-skirt 3-ring forged piston. Lowered compression from 12.5 to 9.5:1. Removal of the "questionable" counter balancer, etc...
All this, and the rotating mass is actually 300grams lighter than stock.
I run this engine in my bike, and I can say first hand it runs cooler and at lower RPM's thanks to it's amazing torque. Even though it will out rev a stock 650, you never feel the need to because it pulls so strong from way down low.
It's exactly what this thread is about; a "Super-Duty" desert bike...
Taffy said:
Oh Taff, you're missing the whole point here. The title asks about a bullet-proof bike for the desert. If all they wanted was to build a bike that would run forever, we'd have a Husaberg logo on an old Honda CT70... :lol:
But the point is having a bike that can run, at desert speeds, for very long periods of time. This task is always best achieved with displacement. That's why Honda made the 650. That's why KTM has run a 660, and is now choosing to run a 690 in the desert.
In order run speeds of 100mph and over for hours on end, you need torque, and lots of it. It's RPM's that destroys these engines. But you can't get enough HP out of a smaller engine without winding them to the point of self destruction. I think Jonah learned that lesson the hard way in Dakar this year, trying to run his 525 against the factory 690's.
Now as far as Ben's 750 goes, he's done so much to make long term reliability the focus of his engine, that it lends very well to desert racing. It's not just a bore and stroke job. It's 40% larger main bearings. A 4130 CrMo tapered crank that simply just won't flex. Larger crank and piston pins. Long-skirt 3-ring forged piston. Lowered compression from 12.5 to 9.5:1. Removal of the "questionable" counter balancer, etc...
All this, and the rotating mass is actually 300grams lighter than stock.
I run this engine in my bike, and I can say first hand it runs cooler and at lower RPM's thanks to it's amazing torque. Even though it will out rev a stock 650, you never feel the need to because it pulls so strong from way down low.
It's exactly what this thread is about; a "Super-Duty" desert bike...
- Joined
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- Ely, England
RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: How about a "SuperDuty" 650 fo
ken
you can call me old fashioned but i'm still a believer in OEM equipmwnt being better than super modifeid job by one of enzo's 'garagisti!' there is so much more to an engine that the crank assembly and sidecarcross is a short duration sport so i remain unconvinced!
regards
Taffy
ken
you can call me old fashioned but i'm still a believer in OEM equipmwnt being better than super modifeid job by one of enzo's 'garagisti!' there is so much more to an engine that the crank assembly and sidecarcross is a short duration sport so i remain unconvinced!
regards
Taffy
RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: How about a "SuperDuty" 650 fo
Isn't part of the fun of riding Husaberg's, spending hours taking every possible precaution, building it under sterile conditions,buying only the best quality specially imported parts, using only the top grade lubes, wrapping it up warm at night plugging in the charger, defending it against the orange bully boys, so that it can go bang and destroy itself for no other reason than it does........
:devil:
But after all is said and done having a bike that looks as good as a Berg especially the 750 in the picture does it for me every time.
Isn't part of the fun of riding Husaberg's, spending hours taking every possible precaution, building it under sterile conditions,buying only the best quality specially imported parts, using only the top grade lubes, wrapping it up warm at night plugging in the charger, defending it against the orange bully boys, so that it can go bang and destroy itself for no other reason than it does........
:devil:
But after all is said and done having a bike that looks as good as a Berg especially the 750 in the picture does it for me every time.
Just thought I'd reinforce the fact that I was talking about using SOME of the components of the JBS Kit, excluding the long rod and sleeve, maintaining a displacement of 650.
From what I read about the JBS Kit, it alleviates a lot of the probs - rod flex, crank deflection, peak running temp etc - these are some of the things that I would look for in a long haul, high output conversion.
Azza.
From what I read about the JBS Kit, it alleviates a lot of the probs - rod flex, crank deflection, peak running temp etc - these are some of the things that I would look for in a long haul, high output conversion.
Azza.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
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- 1,453
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- Berkshire, England
Re: RE: Re: RE: How about a "SuperDuty" 650 for th
That's two things on my list you've knocked on the head :wink:
The other would be to modify the valve train to reduce loading, including valve springs.
All the best,
Simon
PowerCell said:
That's two things on my list you've knocked on the head :wink:
The other would be to modify the valve train to reduce loading, including valve springs.
All the best,
Simon
Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: How about a "SuperDuty" 65
There's a significant difference between the original kit which uses a packer between the head and block, as opposed to the new kit which is in development. I like the idea of a 3-ring piston, which I believe is being reduced to a 2-ring (like stock) piston in order to eleminate the need for a packer.
On the other hand, when you use the packer, your engine ends up being ~15mm taller, which requires modifications to the radiator and carb mounting. You don't appreciate how compact everything is on the Husabergs until you start looking for an additional 15mm of vertical room... :?
The original kit costs about $2500 US, plus shipping. Weither you choose to install it yourself, or have a shop do it for you, will determine the final price.
faktor said:
There's a significant difference between the original kit which uses a packer between the head and block, as opposed to the new kit which is in development. I like the idea of a 3-ring piston, which I believe is being reduced to a 2-ring (like stock) piston in order to eleminate the need for a packer.
On the other hand, when you use the packer, your engine ends up being ~15mm taller, which requires modifications to the radiator and carb mounting. You don't appreciate how compact everything is on the Husabergs until you start looking for an additional 15mm of vertical room... :?
The original kit costs about $2500 US, plus shipping. Weither you choose to install it yourself, or have a shop do it for you, will determine the final price.
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