Fuel Pump Recall?

I've been having some problems with my 2010 FX450. It's only got about 4 hours on it. Last weekend, after about 45mins of riding, I stopped for a second to wait for my buddy to catch up and when I went to start the bike it fired for a second and then died. I tryed again and it just cranked. I checked everything, fuel, fuses, plug. luckaly I had just pulled off a main road. I coasted it down to the road and waited for another rider to get the trucks to come pick us up. I tried a few times while waiting and after about 20mins the bike fired up and ran fine. I road it back to the trucks. I half way chalked it up to vapor locking since the fuel line is so close to the exhaust and jug. Since then I haven't riden it.
I went down and talked to the shop I bought the bike from and they told me it needs a fuel pump. They said it's about the third 2010 they've seen with this problem and that it has even affecting the ktms that had the same pump. He told me the tolerences were to tight and as it heats up, it expands and quits working. He didn't go into much more detail then that.
As of right now I'm waiting to hear back to see if they have a new pump in stock. Has anyone delt with the issue before? I know there is alot of talk on here of bad fuel pumps but what about warrenty issues? Does anyone know where to find warrenty info from husaberg?

Thanks
long time reader first time poster
Jake

No recall as of yet. If you ask Husaberg about a recall all you will hear is the crickets chirping in the background.
Have your dealer ask Husaberg for a "good will repair".

spoke about the fuel pump problems that the bergs were experiencing in mainly the US, prompted by the 390's pump dying on me, and i got the impression that they very much think its down to the fuel in the states somehow effecting the pumps and that its just easier - read probably cheaper as well - to replace each failed pump than do a complete recall, especially as they dont seem to know the definite cause and just suspect the fuel quality / composition.

not really much help but interesting to know.

My 390 did the same thing a dozen times at around the same time on the clock. I was convinced that it was the pump - the bike would fire briefly, then die, and it would have to sit a minute before it would restart. It definitely seemed worse when it was really hot too.

I replaced the filter, which was 80% clogged with the white goo. I also adjusted the valves - one intake was a bit tight.

It hasn't done it since. I even bought the CA pump to swap it out if the problem persisted, but the bike's been flawless since that first ride.

Well I took the bike down today and they told me that just before I bought it, they installed the new "revised" pump in it. I left it with them. They told me the symptoms I was experiencing were the exact same ones causing them to replace the pumps. They also said if it is a faulty pump they're going to try to get Husaberg to "good will" a new pump. I keep everyone informed one what they find.

I got a call this afternoon from the shop. They said there was a fault in the system for the temp sensor. They think the bike got to hot and when I shut it off and restarted it, the ecm disabled the motor via the fuel system until it say a a cooler temp.
I'm not sure I totally beleive that diagnosis but I'm going to keep riding it and if it happens again I'll try disconnecting the temp sensor and if it starts then I guess they were right.
They recommended a fan kit. I might go that route. They said there is a kit for the 10-11's thats plug and play and works with the fx radiators.

any thoughts?
thanks
Jake

IdahoRider said:

I got a call this afternoon from the shop. They said there was a fault in the system for the temp sensor. They think the bike got to hot and when I shut it off and restarted it, the ecm disabled the motor via the fuel system until it say a a cooler temp.
I'm not sure I totally beleive that diagnosis but I'm going to keep riding it and if it happens again I'll try disconnecting the temp sensor and if it starts then I guess they were right.
They recommended a fan kit. I might go that route. They said there is a kit for the 10-11's thats plug and play and works with the fx radiators.

any thoughts?
thanks
Jake

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I think "the shop" is 100% wrong. :crazyeyes:
I previously have disconnected my Coolant Temp Sensor and as a test I added a variable Resistor in it's place.
The Temp Sensor changes resistance based on the following temperatures:
-30C -22F 22.86K ~ 27.94K
-20C -4F 13.50K ~ 16.50K
-10C 14F 8.24K ~ 10.08K
0C 32F 5.17K ~ 6.31K
10C 14F 3.33K ~ 4.07K
20C 68F 2.21K ~ 2.70K
30C 86F 1.49K ~ 1.83K
40C 104F 1.04K ~ 1.27k
50C 122F 730 ~ 892
60C 140F 526 ~ 642
70C 158F 385 ~ 471
80C 176F 286 ~ 350
90C 194F 216 ~ 264
100C 212F 165 ~ 202
110C 230F 128 ~ 156
120C 248F 100 ~ 122

I set my variable resistor to the following:
100 ohms so the ECU thinks the bike is 120C (248F) and the bike started no issues.
I then set it to the following resistances and each time the bike started:
90 ohms
80 ohms
70 ohms
60 ohms

So I do not believe the ECU is shutting down because the engine is too hot.


I did some testing back in this thread below on Page 5:
Vapor lock on 2010 390??

Davo

HI Idaho rider
I'm in the Twin Falls area
My FI experience starts back in the 83/84 years for General Motors as a Fuel injection trainer
The Husaberg FI system is a speed/density program, the most basic and reliable of systems. This is the same basic FI system as GM used in the early days of FI. In the U.S. the husaberg does not use an O2 sensor.
1st sensor is Engine Coolant/, 2nd Throttle position, 3rd manifold/atmospheric pressure, 4th Engine RPM and 5th ambient air / intake air temp. That's all the inputs to the computer. It's an open loop system. If it had an O2 sensor this COULD make it a close loop system depending on programming , where it could sample exhaust oxygen content and make find injector dwell time adjustments mainly so the catalyst in the converter works correctly. Thankfully we don’t have a convert. (YET)
This is a great FI system for a dirt bike very basic!
Your owner’s manual blink codes shows what the ecu will look at for inputs so the ecu will pick the right fuel and timing cell for proper running. You also have outputs controlled by the ecu , fuel pump, timing, injector dwell, FI warning lamp and a few other things.
The rollover sensor will stop the engine from running for safety reasons but they are reliable.
My point being, make sure the shop working on the FI system understands how it works.
I usually don’t say much in this area because the web sites are full of rumors and bad information and I don’t what to get in the middle of a pissing match!!
My 2010 would run very very hot on some slow, steep, rocky trails even in the winter. The fan kit and Justice Brothers super radiator coolant did the trick, NO more over heating issues.
The Coolant Temp sensor will not stop the bike from running!!
Hope you find the right shop and the fix!! Fuel pump, fuel pump.
Have a great ride
Haskell in Idaho

Thanks for the reply. So what is causing the problem that EVERYONE seems to be having? Is it a fuel pump issue? Someone has to have figured it out. I've been trying to read up all the posts but there are so many. If anyone wants to chime in on whatthe real cause is please do.


Thanks Jake

Haskell said:

3rd manifold/atmospheric pressure

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How does it measure atmospheric pressure? Does it do it before the bike starts? I can't get my head around that part.

Haskell said:

I usually don’t say much in this area because the web sites are full of rumors and bad information and I don’t what to get in the middle of a pissing match!!
Haskell in Idaho

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The more said the better I think, we can all learn together.

IdahoRider said:

Thanks for the reply. So what is causing the problem that EVERYONE seems to be having? Is it a fuel pump issue? Someone has to have figured it out. I've been trying to read up all the posts but there are so many. If anyone wants to chime in on whatthe real cause is please do.
Thanks Jake

Click to expand...

There were a lot of problems with Fuel pumps locking up when hot and not spinning.
There have been other issues that may be your problem listed on UHE too:
Could be loose Battery connections.
Chaffed wire around near the top of the rear shock absorber.
There has been plenty of clogged fuel injectors posted on here too.
The electrical connectors in the Fuel tank that connect to the Fuel Pump also have been causing issues.

If you could update this post when you eventually get your bike fixed that would be great.
Hope you solve it soon.
Dave.

The Coolant Temp sensor will not stop the bike from running!!

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That's what I was looking for. Thanks. I'm going to pick it up today. I'm going to kindly let them know they're full of ****. The problem for me is that they're the only shop around that will even look at a Berg. But so few people around here own them I dont think they see them enough to be well versed in the ways of the berg. I'm a certified VW tech so I know what I'm doing I just cant seem to find the time to work on it. It's hard enough to find time to ride it. But I guess I'm going to have to start making time. I'm going to pull the tank and pump when I get it back and go over everything. I'll post what I find.

Jake

Hey Davo
Great to hear you are interested in how the fuel injection system works
This system is a good one to start with because it's fairly simple
Everyone that own's any bike should have an interest in how it works
The internet has some great information on how these sensors work and interact with each other, just be sure it's factual and reliable information. look up the different sensors and read about the speed/ density FI systems, it is explained better than I can.
Idahorider
Being a VW tech try to find the time to work on your bike, you should have no trouble with the fuel system diagnostics. Much easier than the late model VW systems. Listen for the fuel pump run sound, when you quickly push and release the start button the pump should run for two seconds with no engine start, this is a good way to prime the fuel system before you crank to start the engine. You can also do an AMP test on the pump circuit, you will see amperage increase about .5 to 1amp with a bound up fuel pump. Just listening for fuel pump cycling works great also.

Well I went and picked the bike up. Here's there diagnosis:

"UPON INSPECTION/READING CODES, FOUND TEMP SENSOR CODE, INDICATING MACHINE HAD GOTTEN VERY HOT AND OVERHEATED, THEN SHUT OFF. MACHINE WOULD THEN NOT RE-START BECAUSE OF EXCESSIVE TEMP READING FROM SENSOR. ALL ARE NORMAL PROGRAMMED FUNCTIONS"

I ask if the computer took a snap shot when if threw the code so they could tell how many times. They said it only occured once, which is all the bike has acked up. I'm not sure what to think. It does make sense for fuel trims to have to know the sensor, and it makes sensor for husaberg to disable the fuel system from restrting if the sensor show it's to hot.
I think I'm going to just try to ride it since the weather is turning for the cold. If I dont have anymore issues I'm put a fan kit on this spring.

IdahoRider said:

MACHINE WOULD THEN NOT RE-START BECAUSE OF EXCESSIVE TEMP READING FROM SENSOR.
I'm not sure what to think.

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I think he is 100% wrong! As stated I have tested this and the bike does not shut down due to high Coolant Temp sensor readings.

IdahoRider said:

It does make sense for fuel trims to have to know the sensor, and it makes sensor for husaberg to disable the fuel system from restrting if the sensor show it's to hot.

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It makes sense for Husaberg to disable the ECU if the engine gets too hot but they don't.

sooo did u get a definitive answer to this issue?

Two cents here.........

Idaho........Classic thermal runaway seize symptom. Not only have the KTM's had this problem, the Suzuki's had the same issue a while back as well-you just didn't hear about that in the mainstream rags.

Great reply by Haskel, thanks.

Here is what I know about the fuel pump issue on the 2010's.

As stated in a previous post (Haskel) there is a clearance issue in the FI pump, when it gets hot it heat seizes. And after it cools down it will function again. Its really unfortunate the HBG did not come out and say this is what the problem is, and more importantly, they did not change the part number of the pump when it was fixed so that you could tell you had the "fixed" pump. The 09's with the white pre filter holder did not seem to have this problem, I believe there was a brown or tan holder=bad pumps, then another with a color that I can't recall at this point.

As far as the ECU and high engine temps go........when the ECU senses high engine temps it will richen the mixture to lower the combustion temperature. This is an over ride of the leaning that will occur with high density altitudes determined by the MAP sensor, and Intake air temp sensor.

DAVO: Excellent technical post as usual!

IDAHO: You asked about a snap shot. Unbeknownst to a lot of people, the standard ECU on the Husaberg's has a 900 minute data logger available for all inputs to the ECU. BUT, you have to have the user setting tool, and the shop needs to unlock the ECU for you to use it.

Just go here: http://www.husaberg.com/Downloads.33.8. ... .33.8.html

It is the free download from husaberg.com on the software and instructions on how to use the user setting tool. It shows you how to set the trigger to start the recording in the on board data logger, as well as being able to adjust the fuel settings in a variety of places in the 3D map. I do not believe that you can mess with ignition timing though. For instance, one can increase the pseudo fuel pump shot that occurs when the throttle position sensor shows an opening of the throttle to make the motor more snappy. All of the different parameters can be set to start at different rpm's and different throttle openings...........Way more than I want to deal with as the bike runs great as far as I am concerned but it is there for those who want to mess with it.

The most intriguing thing to me is the data logger..........that is a lot of recording time, and if you really had a lot of time on your hands, and a helmet camera, one could split screen the data logger with the helmet cam and watch the ECU inputs throughout one's ride. DAVO, perhaps this would shed some light on the function of the MAP sensor and its part in determining the fuel map along with the IAT and engine temps sensor???

If you want to help with cutting down on engine temps you need to cut down the inlet air temp. This will also affect the INTAKE air temperature sensor, and let the ECU determine the correct density altitude setting in the map, E.G. the ECU will deliver more fuel b/c it sees cooler intake temps, and thus lower density altitude which requires more fuel than a higher density altitude.

Check out this post: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15312








In a previous thread some where here in UHE land, someone had dyno'd one of these bikes and found the IAT was high, as stated in my linked post, I had hoped someone would make another run with the seat off or with this mod to see what the difference was in IAT, engine temp, and the associated fuel trim.

Dale

DaleEO said:

DAVO: Excellent technical post as usual!
Dale

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Thanks Dale

DaleEO said:

DAVO, perhaps this would shed some light on the function of the MAP sensor and its part in determining the fuel map along with the IAT and engine temps sensor???
Dale

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Yes I agree. I think if you could see the 900min logging via the User Setting Tool it may possibly shed some light on what part the MAP Sensor plays in the fuel mapping delivery. From what I have learnt on UHE (which may be incorrect of course) is: The MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) Sensor is only used from 0% throttle to 6% throttle, after that (7% to 100%) the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) is responsible for determining the fuel delivery.

I am guessing if this is true the MAP sensor would show erratic readings in the logged data, or show not much change in readings from 6% to 100% Throttle. By that I mean, there would probably be some info in the logged data that would make you say, "Oh so that is why they don't use the MAP sensor after 6% Throttle opening)

Will a Keihin expert ever craw out of the woodwork and set us all straight? :crazyeyes: