FE650 2002 - Won't run properly

Hi all,

So this 2002 FE650 had been sitting in a corner for the last 6-7 years because of a small crack in the head where the cam chain guide sits. According to the owner that was the whole reason it was left sitting.

I got the bike over to my place and went through the usual just to see if it would start. After many tries (electric starter) it fired and idled OK. Took it for a short run down my street and back. Oil was coming out through the cracked head, but other than that it seemed fine except stuttering on WOT.

I took the engine out and got the head fixed properly. Replaced worn out cam chain guide, cleaned up and checked valves and springs, lubed everything up and put it all together again with new gaskets, spark plug, oil and coolant. The old spark plug showed indications of running lean (very white). I cleaned out the carburetor (Dellorto PHM40) and found that the starter pilot was all clogged up.

Upgrades that have been done by the owner is SEM ignition, heavy duty starter, different cam and jet kit for the carburetor.

After all of this the bike is really hard to start. At first it would only start with choke, but not run at all without choke. Took the jets out again and cleaned them another time. Now the bike will start after 5-6 tries without choke, but it's running very erraticly. Sounds like it's not firing properly. I have not yet been able to take it out for a test drive since I can't get it to run right. I don't have proper timing tools, but have tried advancing and retarding the SEM a tiny bit just to see if it makes any difference, it hasn't.

I'm at the end of my rope.

If the engine is uneven, the mixture is certainly rich.New carburettor components must be obtained: jets, sprayer, needle, gaskets. Try with freshly purchased fuel, never with months old fuel

HerrLantz

a few pertinent points;

always blow backwards through a carb...never forwards. try and get a new valve that would pump up a football/basketball etc and put that in the teet on the end of the air gun. get it into the pilot exit and push back.

jets that are very, very green are smaller, so buy new or cleaned proffesionally.

the igniton timing.
go into Taffmeisters Facebook page and to videos. there's one there on timing your bike.

valve clearances. you must be able to make a morse code message on the tappets and be heard at the rear licence plate not just "1/6th of a turn".

your missfire at mid revs may be many thjings at the moment. poor earths come to mind. old fuel?

standard carburation doesn't need choke to start. this is because the carburation is poor.

good carburation MUST need choke to start when cold. why wouldn't it?

regards

Taffy

It seems regardless of how much I turn the mixture screw it's not affecting anything. It should increase/decrease idle a little but it doesn't. I have had the carburetor down twice making sure it's clean. Tried stating up yesterday after a week of nothing and now I couldn't get it started at all.

I guess another disassembly of the carburetor is due
.. I just can't figure out how the bike could run before I even had cleaned it the first time but now, with everything cleaned and checked twice, not run properly much less even start.

take the carb off and look upstream from the front.
DO NOT OPEN THE THROTTLE. IT WILL SQUIRT PETROL IN YOUR EYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look at the plate. it should say 'M'. I bet it says 'W'.

problem solved.

regards


Taffy

You said that initially the engine runs well at idle, but is irregular in WOT. This with the slow jet clogged.

You certainly have a worn needle and a worn emulsion tube, which makes too rich. This explains why the mixture screw has no effect.

Your timing could be off one tooth where the balancer gear meshes with the primary gear.

The cam gear could also be off one tooth where it attaches to the timing chain.


How did you determine TDC ?
How worn is the timing chain?
What was wrong with the cam chain tensioner that it required replacement?

Taffy said:

take the carb off and look upstream from the front.
DO NOT OPEN THE THROTTLE. IT WILL SQUIRT PETROL IN YOUR EYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look at the plate. it should say 'M'. I bet it says 'W'.

problem solved.

regards


Taffy

Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean. Plate?

Here's the Dellorto PHM40

Slide and needle looks OK from what I can tell.

Taff got the carbs mixed up, just a senior moment I'm sure, seems to be happening to me more and more too.

The plate he is referring to is the "Throttle Valve Vacuum Slide Plate" which is on the Keihin FCR carb that showed up on the 2004 and up models. Is it not uncommon for this part to be reinstalled upside down causing problems like you have described.

husabutt said:

Taff got the carbs mixed up, just a senior moment I'm sure, seems to be happening to me more and more too.

The plate he is referring to is the "Throttle Valve Vacuum Slide Plate" which is on the Keihin FCR carb that showed up on the 2004 and up models. Is it not uncommon for this part to be reinstalled upside down causing problems like you have described.

Click to expand...

I thought so
Well this will hopefully be the last time I tear down the carburetor. Everything looks OK and the bike did run with this carb setup before, so there's no reason why it wouldn't now.

Got a new spark plug today, just to make sure. I had a bike years ago with a brand new quality spark plug. I ended up replacing the ignition and rebuilding carb completely before finding out the brand new spark plug was faulty. So I'll try another new spark plug tomorrow. Unlikely to have bad luck twice, but who knows.

I have a feeling it won't start or run poorly though.. it's giving me a proper headache atm.

husabutt said:

Your timing could be off one tooth where the balancer gear meshes with the primary gear.

The cam gear could also be off one tooth where it attaches to the timing chain.


How did you determine TDC ?
How worn is the timing chain?
What was wrong with the cam chain tensioner that it required replacement?

Click to expand...

The engine was on the work bench and i used the old fashioned way of putting a straw in the spark plug hole until it reached the very top on the compression stroke. The timing chain looked OK. I meant to say cam chain guide in my first post, not tensioner. I replaced the plastic guide since the bolt holding it in place was worn out and had caused the crack in the head probably from over tightening in a bad angle.

Even though you had stated that something had been done to the stator (SEM), replaced or rewound no doubt, it is still very fragile and sensitive to moisture (keep it dry especially after washing. It should probably be checked. Here are updated specs from U.K. Motoplat, the go to place to have the SEM stator rewound.

UK Motoplat - Bradford Ignitions:

1999 to 2003 >>> black & red 3000 Ohms
> black & green 165 Ohms

Yellow & Blue, greater than 1.0 Ohm

As a quick check if you have a nice big fat blue spark the stator is probably O.K. If the spark is weak or hard to see the stator is probably bad.

sorry about that, brain fart!

first of all, you can't get a plug colour with modern fuels. the unleaded revolution was in 1988 yet this attitude still persists. you had a blocked jet as well!

you should need the choke to start the bike, especially if it has had a jetting kit. but 7 years ago, all I did was the 'spruce up' kit. things have moved on.. confirm with me what kit it had at the time?

the stator should NOT need to move when it is a SEM. here is a diagram of what you need.

remember, when you set the stator it has nothing to do with the flywheel. so if it helps, take the cover off and set the timing while holding it in your hands.

the white line on the flywheel is there for if you can strobe the timing. that is the only time that marked white line comes into it.

always set up the idle as low as possible, then the fuel screw (which should up the idle), then lower the idle, then adjust the fuel screw (up again), then the idle for the third time.

when you find a range of idles work, while the engine is hot try the starter and kickstart with different positions for easiest starting.

finally, stop the engine, count the turns to closing the FS. if it is 1.5 turns then you have the right PJ. if it isn't then you can buy a better PJ.

regards

Taffy

So I spent some time with the damn bike tonight. Re- assembled the carb for the 4th time, put another new spark plug in, turned on the fuel and cranked. Same thing as before. I got it started eventually and it's not running well. No idle, I have to keep it on 1/4 throttle (have no tach, probably around 1200rpm) while trying to dial in idle screw and mixture screw. They do nothing. I can't even get idle with the idle screw all the way in.

Here's my best explanation of how it behaves:
Cranking the starter with no throttle is not firing at all, a few burps and blows every now and then, but no real attempt to fire. If I turn the throttle 1/4th it will start to fire. You can hear it firing on each rotation and the cranking goes quicker. I found that choke works better when it's completely cold, but after a few minutes
of cranking attempts the exhaust starts to get warm, that's when I try without choke. Eventually, if you're lucky and the battery doesn't drain, it will start.

When it has started it's running very "rough", in lack of a better word. It feels almost like when a 2-stroke engine 4-strokes (think of a moped after a cold start and give it full throttle). I'm not familiar with husaberg and have only ever test ridden the bike down the street when I got it, but my general experience with thumpers is that it should be running smoother. I find the exhaust is getting very hot quickly too which may be normal? No idle regardless of carb adjustments.

Something is definitely off.. I'm about to ditch the SOAB in the lake soon!

Also, the carb has a 33 PJ.

Try starting the cold engine using "hot start". If it starts better you have proof that the problem is the mixture too rich.

Another very common issue, especially on the 650's is a broken exhaust valve spring. Check the stator first though as it only takes a few minutes with a multi meter.

A 33 is the correct pilot jet, for the U.S. anyway.

Pour a thimble full of fuel into the spark plug hole and crank it. If it runs somewhat good for a minute or so then you do probably have a carb issue, but I don't think its the carb.

Try removing the gas cap when starting it, the cap vent may not be letting in enough air.

at the beginning you said that the carb had been fitted with a jetting kit by the previous owner 7 years ago and I pointed out that that could only be a spruce up kit.

your problem is that you haven't seen 'better days' yet.

you need my easystart kit mate. if you are to start that bike, you need it. there is no ******* way that a 650 in Europe can run on a 33 unless the slide says "30" underneath....and it will not say that. it will say "40". but a 33 is completely wrong. 38 is the minimum with the carb as originally supplied. are you sure it doesn't say '38'?

I'm helping 3 people a day like this. non-mechanics and the one thing I start to tire of is when they don't spend any money on anything with anybody but still keep asking me questions.

as I say to my friends (not my customers though) "advice and quotes - the two most abused things on this planet".

regards

Taffy

Taffy said:

at the beginning you said that the carb had been fitted with a jetting kit by the previous owner 7 years ago and I pointed out that that could only be a spruce up kit.

your problem is that you haven't seen 'better days' yet.

you need my easystart kit mate. if you are to start that bike, you need it. there is no ******* way that a 650 in Europe can run on a 33 unless the slide says "30" underneath....and it will not say that. it will say "40". but a 33 is completely wrong. 38 is the minimum with the carb as originally supplied. are you sure it doesn't say '38'?

I'm helping 3 people a day like this. non-mechanics and the one thing I start to tire of is when they don't spend any money on anything with anybody but still keep asking me questions.

as I say to my friends (not my customers though) "advice and quotes - the two most abused things on this planet".

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

I will double check what I wrote down in my workshop, it could be PJ38. I'll get back to you.

I talked to the previous owner and the bike is equipped with easy start kit, auto decomp and jet kit. All from you actually!