FE450 parts in FE400

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D

Danielson

Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
72
Location
NSW Australia
I purchased a 04 FE450 Motor in bits recently thinking beauty I'll upgrade my 400 with some later goodies. The 2 piece clutch cover went on but must use matched waterpump cover, gearchange lever and the kickstarter had to have a small washer put on the end of the shaft or the kuckle hit the seal in the case.

Now for the not so good, I used the cam and rear tensioner blade and tensioner as per the doc no problem and heaps more adjustment.
I also used the 450 rockers not so good here. I had to make a spacer for the inlet rocker which had a 12mm id and was 17mm long to make up for the shorter length, I also decided to put the ex rocker in as well andhad to modify the decomp shaft to suit as well.
After assembly but before running (my spark went south so would not start) I got thinking and then measured the valve spacings. The exhausts on the 450 are 4mm futher apart which will cause problems with the tapets lining up, the inlets are 1mm closer together which I think I can run with or will it cause problems ? So it has to come apart again.

It also looks like the 450 head will bolt straight on but it has a much larger combustion chamber and will lose a lot of compression. Any thoughts on this as the 450 has a hi comp piston whereas the 400 is flat I think.

Regards a frustrated Dan
 
Danielson said:
I purchased a 04 FE450 Motor in bits recently thinking beauty I'll upgrade my 400 with some later goodies. The 2 piece clutch cover went on but must use matched waterpump cover, gearchange lever and the kickstarter had to have a small washer put on the end of the shaft or the kuckle hit the seal in the case.

Now for the not so good, I used the cam and rear tensioner blade and tensioner as per the doc no problem and heaps more adjustment.
I also used the 450 rockers not so good here. I had to make a spacer for the inlet rocker which had a 12mm id and was 17mm long to make up for the shorter length, I also decided to put the ex rocker in as well and had to modify the decomp shaft to suit as well.
After assembly but before running (my spark went south so would not start) I got thinking and then measured the valve spacings. The exhausts on the 450 are 4mm futher apart which will cause problems with the tapets lining up, the inlets are 1mm closer together which I think I can run with or will it cause problems ? So it has to come apart again.

It also looks like the 450 head will bolt straight on but it has a much larger combustion chamber and will lose a lot of compression. Any thoughts on this as the 450 has a hi comp piston whereas the 400 is flat I think.

Regards a frustrated Dan
Click to expand...

on that kickstart? you drew the assembly further out with a washer right inside against the cases? which bit was hitting when you say "the boss"?

that waterpump cover is oddly enough very cheap so fret not!

i wouldn't use those rockers at all. why? because the rocker s ends must be near the support of the thing that holds them (in this case the rocker cover) anything else introduces flex like someone skipping = not good.

if you had or have DVSK there was no need for the decomp at all and i'm not sure at that why yo didn't keep the old assembly as it was perfectly adequete.

the exhausts being further apart ties in with the old BV head's spacing ok. but the inlets being closer doesn't make any sense? are you measuring the tappet pad spacing or the pair of inlets and their spacing?

please double check that? also 1mm off isn't a problem bar the one i mention above...

if you order the 380HC piston (yes 92mm with a dome on it) which is designed for your bike you'll get your compression back. i would weigh the pistons though coz they must weigh differently. however that is the correct option. it's available as an OEM stand alone part: OEM 400 Piston domed 92mm(380 kit) 800 30 007 144 £172.50

regards

Taffy
 
on that kickstart? you drew the assembly further out with a washer right inside against the cases? which bit was hitting when you say "the boss"?

that waterpump cover is oddly enough very cheap so fret not!

i wouldn't use those rockers at all. why? because the rocker s ends must be near the support of the thing that holds them (in this case the rocker cover) anything else introduces flex like someone skipping = not good.

if you had or have DVSK there was no need for the decomp at all and i'm not sure at that why yo didn't keep the old assembly as it was perfectly adequete.

the exhausts being further apart ties in with the old BV head's spacing ok. but the inlets being closer doesn't make any sense? are you measuring the tappet pad spacing or the pair of inlets and their spacing?

please double check that? also 1mm off isn't a problem bar the one i mention above...

if you order the 380HC piston (yes 92mm with a dome on it) which is designed for your bike you'll get your compression back. i would weigh the pistons though coz they must weigh differently. however that is the correct option. it's available as an OEM stand alone part: OEM 400 Piston domed 92mm(380 kit) 800 30 007 144 £172.50
Click to expand...


Taffy I placed a small washer on the outer end of the kickstart shaft so as to make it a little longer otherwise when I tightend the bolt it pushed the splined section on to far and hard against the seal.

Taffy you are on the ball as to the rockers and support of shaft and flex etc, I had not considered that. I will have to try and find some new 8mm shafts for my old rockers or rotate then as you had suggested in another post.

I had to make the flat on the decompressor shaft thinner as the rib on the 04 rocker is higher and It was fowling before the correct valve clearance was achieved. This however will have to be replaced as the 450 exhaust rocker is no good in the 400.

The inlet valves were from memory were 34mm centre to centre on the 400 and 33mm on the 450, but were definately 1mm closer together on the 450 and it was measured at the tip of the valve stem.

I would like to fit the 450 head as the ports look better and it has the correct carby mount and I could use the whole 450 rocker cover assy but I just don't have that much spare time, so back to the original rockers I go.

Thanks for your feedback.
Regards Dan
 
Taffy said:
if you order the 380HC piston (yes 92mm with a dome on it) which is designed for your bike you'll get your compression back. i would weigh the pistons though coz they must weigh differently. however that is the correct option. it's available as an OEM stand alone part: OEM 400 Piston domed 92mm(380 kit) 800 30 007 144 £172.50

regards

Taffy
Click to expand...
The 400 has 18mm piston pin and the 380(450)is 20mm
 
Fourstrokeforce said:
Taffy said:
if you order the 380HC piston (yes 92mm with a dome on it) which is designed for your bike you'll get your compression back. i would weigh the pistons though coz they must weigh differently. however that is the correct option. it's available as an OEM stand alone part: OEM 400 Piston domed 92mm(380 kit) 800 30 007 144 £172.50

regards

Taffy
Click to expand...
The 400 has 18mm piston pin and the 380(450)is 20mm
Click to expand...

congratulations on throwing that spanner in the front wheel! of course your next post will be to tell us the one or two ways he can sirmount this problem!

we await...

regards

Taffy
 
Well it's back together with the original rockers but now has new Husqvarna roller rocker on the inlet rocker. It uses the same 8mm pin and was a direct replacement no mods reqired and was only $40 for the roller with pin and needle rollers (might be good info for the doc). The 04 FE450 55/21 cam I used seems not as puchy off the bottom end but very smooth. As I have a rekluse clutch fitted it seems to take a little longer for the slip to take up before having full drive. Oil leak on rocker cover has cured with Worth silicon and overnight curing.
Dan
 
i agree, the cam is the same timing as the '01 but without the concave flanks. however, it's the concave sides that give the 01 and the 53 cams their torque (no overlap to talk of).

regards

Taffy
 
So Taffy are you saying the 01 and the 5521 that I am now using have the same timing ? I measured the lobes and base circles on both and the 5521 measured around .4mm more lift, it also looked to have a longer curve on the lobe so I thought it may have more duration. How much for a LX2 and are they worth it ?
Dan
 
no i'm not saying they are the same but they are similar, i can tell that just by looking. what works is whats best i suppose!

the high end cam can't be used with the 400 but can with the 450+. yes it's worth is for anyone with a 5521, 01, 53 cam. torque cam isn't such a leap with the smaller engines, they just don't get all the benefits.

big difference.

regards

Taffy
 

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